1 00:00:00,545 --> 00:00:04,485 And that chain is binding you to that person and they're still winning, 2 00:00:04,485 --> 00:00:05,765 they're still controlling you. 3 00:00:06,545 --> 00:00:10,165 So I always say to, um, people that I coach and stuff, You gotta 4 00:00:10,165 --> 00:00:15,525 picture like these giant bolt cutters and you just gotta cut that. 5 00:00:15,545 --> 00:00:19,325 You gotta cut that chain and move forward and look forward, not 6 00:00:34,715 --> 00:00:34,945 back. 7 00:00:54,410 --> 00:00:56,720 Today, we are speaking with Kimber Foster. 8 00:00:57,660 --> 00:01:01,200 She is the author of Year of Thorns. 9 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:04,480 Kimber, could you please introduce yourself? 10 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,280 And let people know just a little more about you, please? 11 00:01:08,890 --> 00:01:09,110 Hi. 12 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,110 Thank you so much for having me, I'm honored to be here. 13 00:01:12,690 --> 00:01:18,310 Um, yeah, I am the author of Year of Thorns, What to Expect When Divorcing 14 00:01:18,390 --> 00:01:24,550 A Narcissist, and I also wrote The Divorce Checklist, The Ultimate Survival 15 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,440 Guide to Freedom From A Narcissist. 16 00:01:28,500 --> 00:01:35,199 Um, a little about me, I was married thirty years in a toxic relationship and 17 00:01:35,199 --> 00:01:37,199 finally found the courage to break free. 18 00:01:38,020 --> 00:01:45,240 And I took my year of struggle, it was my, essentially my journal and 19 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:47,639 I turned it into book, into a book. 20 00:01:48,380 --> 00:01:50,839 And it's meant to help others. 21 00:01:51,259 --> 00:01:57,305 And not only was it therapeutic for me, but it was important that I understood 22 00:01:57,305 --> 00:02:01,425 what I went through so that I can move forward and help other people. 23 00:02:02,405 --> 00:02:07,625 I'm so glad that you wrote things down and that gives you clarity later. 24 00:02:08,324 --> 00:02:10,425 You know, it, it's really interesting. 25 00:02:11,325 --> 00:02:16,625 So many people nowadays live with narcissistic people in their lives. 26 00:02:17,255 --> 00:02:21,345 It's like we're breeding narcissism wherever we go anymore. 27 00:02:23,575 --> 00:02:30,525 It's interesting, you say through this journey of yours, you found 28 00:02:30,555 --> 00:02:35,395 seventeen common emotional manipulative, 29 00:02:37,585 --> 00:02:42,405 you found seventeen common manipulative tactics 30 00:02:44,704 --> 00:02:51,345 for people to be aware of about narcissistic behavior. 31 00:02:51,715 --> 00:02:55,745 Could you please outline some of those for us? 32 00:02:56,780 --> 00:02:57,070 Sure. 33 00:02:57,100 --> 00:02:59,990 Well, when I was going through the process, I had no idea I 34 00:02:59,990 --> 00:03:01,380 was married to a narcissist. 35 00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:03,960 Like you said, it's become mainstream. 36 00:03:04,030 --> 00:03:05,470 I call it the N word now. 37 00:03:05,610 --> 00:03:08,950 But I had no idea I was married to a narcissist. 38 00:03:09,570 --> 00:03:14,270 All I knew at the time was that I had lost myself, I became a 39 00:03:14,270 --> 00:03:16,070 shell of the person I once was. 40 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:21,390 I felt crazy, and I was so depressed, and I knew I needed to make a change. 41 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:26,484 Um, and so I decided to get divorced and take that step. 42 00:03:27,185 --> 00:03:33,885 Um, but I did keep a journal and it saved me so many times, I can't even tell you. 43 00:03:34,584 --> 00:03:37,805 But it wasn't until after when I started reading information 44 00:03:38,095 --> 00:03:42,084 about what a narcissist is, I realized my story wasn't unique. 45 00:03:42,084 --> 00:03:43,084 It was textbook. 46 00:03:43,965 --> 00:03:48,605 I even have a degree in psychology and I didn't even see it and, not until after. 47 00:03:49,265 --> 00:03:54,255 Um, so I started researching and reading everything I could get my hands on. 48 00:03:55,135 --> 00:03:58,095 Actually it started, my girlfriend was going through a divorce and she 49 00:03:58,095 --> 00:04:00,215 said she was being verbally abused. 50 00:04:00,394 --> 00:04:01,655 And I said, Well, what's that? 51 00:04:02,195 --> 00:04:05,695 And she gave me this book called The Verbally Abusive Relationship, 52 00:04:06,075 --> 00:04:07,295 and I said, Wow, that's me. 53 00:04:07,755 --> 00:04:12,535 And so it led to the next book, the next book, and I said, 54 00:04:12,674 --> 00:04:14,734 Wow, you know, I'm textbook. 55 00:04:14,755 --> 00:04:15,975 My story is not unique. 56 00:04:16,075 --> 00:04:19,640 So when I decided to write my book, it was driven. 57 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,240 I swear, like God said, You need to write this, not only 58 00:04:23,340 --> 00:04:24,920 for myself, but to help others. 59 00:04:25,630 --> 00:04:28,440 That I identified these manipulative tactics. 60 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,120 I said, Oh, that's gaslighting, or alienation, or manipulative 61 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,500 tactics that he used consistently. 62 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,340 So I went through and I put those back into my book, in my journal. 63 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,620 So it's kind of like I'm flipping back and forth between the past and the future. 64 00:04:44,930 --> 00:04:47,260 Because I said, Oh, he did this, this, and this. 65 00:04:47,260 --> 00:04:48,780 This is an example of gaslighting. 66 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:55,500 Or, you know, we moved every three years and so I was, um, didn't 67 00:04:55,500 --> 00:05:01,140 have a good support base or, um, a refuge of people that I could go to. 68 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:02,500 You know, that's alienation. 69 00:05:03,554 --> 00:05:09,695 Um, and any time that, um, he would do things that I would question 70 00:05:09,914 --> 00:05:14,174 his behavior or say, You know, I'm hurt, he would project back on me. 71 00:05:14,325 --> 00:05:18,775 There's so many things, I could go on for hours, but, um, my book is pretty 72 00:05:18,775 --> 00:05:21,094 clear at giving some specific guidelines. 73 00:05:21,164 --> 00:05:21,455 Yeah. 74 00:05:24,294 --> 00:05:31,594 So, so how do you identify if you're in a narcissistic relationship and if you 75 00:05:31,594 --> 00:05:35,440 should have a exit strategy for that? 76 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:37,330 Yeah. 77 00:05:37,330 --> 00:05:38,130 Well, I didn't know. 78 00:05:38,130 --> 00:05:40,970 Like I said, I had no idea I was married to a narcissist. 79 00:05:41,310 --> 00:05:44,290 Um, it, I was, we were together thirty years. 80 00:05:45,230 --> 00:05:48,970 And sure there were red flags along the way, but 81 00:05:51,395 --> 00:05:54,085 it's, it's not something you say, Oh, you're a narcissist. 82 00:05:54,755 --> 00:05:57,675 They're very controlling, they're very smart, they're very 83 00:05:57,675 --> 00:06:00,245 manipulative and controlling. 84 00:06:00,825 --> 00:06:04,685 And at first it starts off like a honeymoon phase, they almost morph 85 00:06:05,155 --> 00:06:07,045 into what you need them to be. 86 00:06:08,025 --> 00:06:12,495 And they're very good at picking on people who, or like for 87 00:06:12,495 --> 00:06:13,855 me, I was a people pleaser. 88 00:06:14,275 --> 00:06:18,455 Um, or people that are codependent, or kind, or, you know, people let 89 00:06:18,455 --> 00:06:20,975 things go, don't set proper boundaries. 90 00:06:21,675 --> 00:06:25,255 Um, so they tend to prey on that type of person. 91 00:06:26,155 --> 00:06:30,215 So for me, you know, I, I saw red flags, but I let things go. 92 00:06:30,835 --> 00:06:36,215 And then later on when those, when I tried to set boundaries, the narcissistic 93 00:06:36,215 --> 00:06:38,055 person would just push back even harder. 94 00:06:39,470 --> 00:06:43,930 So it's just, it's, it's, it, it, you know, thirty years, it's a long time. 95 00:06:45,030 --> 00:06:48,090 And I was conditioned, and yeah, it was a struggle. 96 00:06:50,050 --> 00:06:51,840 Well, I understand. 97 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:56,820 You know, the attachment that, that's definite, you know, after 98 00:06:58,940 --> 00:06:59,510 that long. 99 00:07:00,169 --> 00:07:05,109 Uh, I've been with my wife, we've been married forty years in September. 100 00:07:05,929 --> 00:07:09,349 And I'll tell you, it's, it's not easy. 101 00:07:10,049 --> 00:07:15,669 And there was many times that both of us wanted to put a lid on that can. 102 00:07:16,530 --> 00:07:25,280 And we really fought back and we discovered our own dirt, per se. 103 00:07:25,780 --> 00:07:30,200 And we, we really started uncovering how to change ourselves. 104 00:07:30,820 --> 00:07:36,360 Was there any attempt by your husband or yourself to do any 105 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,810 of that self clearing work? 106 00:07:42,050 --> 00:07:46,620 Well, he, we had, you know, as in any marriage, you have your struggles, 107 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:47,860 you have your ups and downs. 108 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:53,855 But with a narcissist and a narcissistic psychopath, they lack empathy. 109 00:07:54,045 --> 00:07:55,975 They will take no accountability. 110 00:07:56,875 --> 00:08:01,895 So when things got really bad, you know, I suggested we seek counseling. 111 00:08:02,355 --> 00:08:05,735 Um, which we did, but it, it was futile. 112 00:08:05,845 --> 00:08:07,695 Like I said, he would never take accountability. 113 00:08:07,755 --> 00:08:13,055 It was more, uh, pointing fingers saying, you know, She does this, she does that. 114 00:08:13,835 --> 00:08:19,735 Um, and it just was futile and it took me a while to realize that. 115 00:08:20,849 --> 00:08:24,229 Um, and finally I just went out and had therapy on my own. 116 00:08:24,669 --> 00:08:26,310 I knew it was never gonna work with him. 117 00:08:26,979 --> 00:08:30,439 They, they won't change, they never will because there's nothing wrong with them. 118 00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:32,390 Yeah. 119 00:08:32,819 --> 00:08:34,630 Yeah, that's, that's huge actually. 120 00:08:35,010 --> 00:08:40,750 Uh, so one of those big key things to be mindful of is 121 00:08:40,750 --> 00:08:42,789 accountability in a relationship. 122 00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:50,165 If somebody's not going to be accountable, we should actually hold them accountable. 123 00:08:50,625 --> 00:08:52,965 And that's tough to do at times. 124 00:08:53,625 --> 00:09:00,125 But I, I know from experience when I did that with my own relationship, 125 00:09:00,745 --> 00:09:04,605 things started to change and get better. 126 00:09:05,345 --> 00:09:11,935 So, that, I really believe is one of those key things we should be aware 127 00:09:11,935 --> 00:09:17,380 of is are you trying to be accountable for your own actions in your life? 128 00:09:19,515 --> 00:09:20,415 Or even, yeah. 129 00:09:21,035 --> 00:09:24,214 Or validating, validating a person's feelings. 130 00:09:24,515 --> 00:09:28,814 If you say, you know, This hurt my feelings, it's not attacking someone. 131 00:09:29,395 --> 00:09:32,975 But just saying, you know, Your actions hurt my feelings, or 132 00:09:33,175 --> 00:09:37,055 whatever, just validating those feelings, a narcissist won't do that. 133 00:09:37,365 --> 00:09:40,494 They'll say, Well, you're blowing everything out of proportion. 134 00:09:40,635 --> 00:09:42,175 You are exaggerating. 135 00:09:42,605 --> 00:09:44,935 They'll belittle what you're feeling. 136 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:48,439 And that's where the accountability doesn't come into play. 137 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:49,040 Yeah. 138 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:51,569 Yeah. 139 00:09:51,890 --> 00:09:57,089 I, I, I've, I've had that play out in my own relationship, so I understand that. 140 00:09:57,270 --> 00:10:07,705 And it was hard, you know, a male ego at times to say, Yeah, I am accountable, and 141 00:10:08,265 --> 00:10:10,905 I, I did that, and I should change that. 142 00:10:11,405 --> 00:10:17,825 Uh, I don't know why that's so hard for males to do at times, but it, it 143 00:10:17,825 --> 00:10:22,625 tends to be one of those things that we have to really own up to ourselves. 144 00:10:23,444 --> 00:10:30,500 And, you know, I, I don't like to put name tags or labels on the 145 00:10:30,750 --> 00:10:35,900 sexes because we're definitely, both sides, are guilty of these things. 146 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:43,980 But being, being accountable and owning up to our own actions really does help 147 00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:48,460 drive a relationship forward into new 148 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:51,100 territories. 149 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:57,500 And you can discover new things about yourselves when you do open up. 150 00:10:58,090 --> 00:10:59,780 Have you remarried Kimber? 151 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:02,980 No, I haven't. 152 00:11:02,980 --> 00:11:04,660 I've been single now for seven years. 153 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,420 Uh, it's been a journey. 154 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:12,500 I mean, when you leave or break free from a narcissist, you can bet they already 155 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:15,220 have another supply already set up. 156 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:21,745 But for a person that's recovering, it takes years because you've 157 00:11:21,745 --> 00:11:27,305 been conditioned for so long to feel inadequate, less than. 158 00:11:27,885 --> 00:11:31,505 It was a real self journey for me, learning to love myself again. 159 00:11:32,084 --> 00:11:35,185 And that was a big component and the other was forgiveness. 160 00:11:36,125 --> 00:11:38,385 You know, I was so resentful. 161 00:11:38,405 --> 00:11:43,260 And I looked back and I was so angry, not only through the, the 162 00:11:43,260 --> 00:11:48,300 divorce, which was really ugly, but you know, thirty years of abuse. 163 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,220 It takes a long time to get over something like that and to be able to forgive. 164 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,260 And, but that is really the key because as long as you hold onto that, it's 165 00:11:58,260 --> 00:12:00,460 almost like you're holding a chain. 166 00:12:01,170 --> 00:12:05,110 And that chain is binding you to that person and they're still winning, 167 00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:06,390 they're still controlling you. 168 00:12:07,170 --> 00:12:10,829 So I always say to, um, people that I coach and stuff, You gotta 169 00:12:10,829 --> 00:12:16,189 picture like these giant bolt cutters and you just gotta cut that. 170 00:12:16,209 --> 00:12:20,510 You gotta cut that chain and move forward and look forward, not back. 171 00:12:30,990 --> 00:12:31,210 Yep. 172 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,730 That, that's absolutely correct. 173 00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:35,370 I believe that a hundred percent. 174 00:12:35,930 --> 00:12:39,730 I have a theory, it's called the Muddy Shoe Life Theory. 175 00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:40,770 And 176 00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:49,180 our life is like we're walking down a trail with a muddy shoe and 177 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,620 people, places and things, it's that heavy mud that we walked through. 178 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,300 And if you've walked through heavy mud, you know, it collects on your feet. 179 00:13:00,420 --> 00:13:04,000 And it can get very heavy and it can tire you out. 180 00:13:04,339 --> 00:13:09,640 So you have to wipe it off, get rid of the heavy mud. 181 00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:12,920 The good mud stays with you. 182 00:13:13,660 --> 00:13:19,079 But if you keep packing that heavy mud, your journey's going 183 00:13:19,579 --> 00:13:23,160 to be long, it's gonna be arduous. 184 00:13:23,619 --> 00:13:28,650 And really if you wipe it off, you're going to feel refreshed and you can 185 00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:33,370 make it to the end of your journey without all of that heavy mud. 186 00:13:33,950 --> 00:13:39,010 So I, I think that, yeah, uh, it's a good analogy. 187 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:42,990 Do, uh, spread it, it, it's like wildfire. 188 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:46,820 But really, it, it, we have to do that. 189 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:48,690 That stuff gets heavy. 190 00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:55,844 And if, if you learn to wipe it off, which is not easy at times because of 191 00:13:55,844 --> 00:14:06,234 that attachment you were talking about, uh, so yeah, when we get through life 192 00:14:06,584 --> 00:14:13,980 without a bunch of worries, headaches, it can be fun, it can be exciting. 193 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:21,940 And I'm, I'm just now learning that and I'm close to sixty, so, you know, 194 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:29,854 if we can share what we've learned to the younger generation, we're 195 00:14:29,854 --> 00:14:36,175 bridge builders and we can help people discover life doesn't have to be 196 00:14:36,194 --> 00:14:38,734 the way that we've experienced it. 197 00:14:39,665 --> 00:14:39,885 So, 198 00:14:42,084 --> 00:14:42,655 That's true. 199 00:14:43,005 --> 00:14:45,214 Yeah, it's really good to take no offense. 200 00:14:45,564 --> 00:14:46,535 Yeah, sorry. 201 00:14:47,495 --> 00:14:50,454 I just said it's really important not to take offense to everything 202 00:14:50,564 --> 00:14:53,694 instead of looking at people with grace and compassion. 203 00:14:54,115 --> 00:15:00,075 And it's amazing how much more free and how much lighter your heart 204 00:15:00,615 --> 00:15:02,435 and your soul feel after all that. 205 00:15:03,735 --> 00:15:03,955 Yes. 206 00:15:04,655 --> 00:15:06,435 So yeah, lighten your load. 207 00:15:06,694 --> 00:15:08,875 You, you don't have to be a people pleaser. 208 00:15:09,175 --> 00:15:15,645 It, it's one of those things as we get older, we learn that pleasing 209 00:15:15,645 --> 00:15:19,565 people doesn't necessarily mean we're going to please ourselves. 210 00:15:20,385 --> 00:15:28,165 And that's really where joy is and that's not being narcissistic or have have 211 00:15:28,165 --> 00:15:32,805 these, you know, egotistical thoughts. 212 00:15:32,825 --> 00:15:38,325 It, it just means that you can be happy in your life and be free from 213 00:15:38,905 --> 00:15:42,765 all of that by standing up to life. 214 00:15:43,775 --> 00:15:48,875 And, and that really means when we are in one of those relationships, 215 00:15:50,094 --> 00:15:53,584 we have to set boundaries. 216 00:15:54,785 --> 00:16:00,045 And if we can't set boundaries, our life's not going to get better. 217 00:16:00,745 --> 00:16:08,405 And, and those little things, you know, and you know through living with each 218 00:16:08,405 --> 00:16:12,625 other, incrementally, things can pile up. 219 00:16:14,345 --> 00:16:19,685 Don't be afraid to talk about those things that bug you. 220 00:16:20,385 --> 00:16:27,445 And if, if they're not willing to really take a deep dive and try to change 221 00:16:27,555 --> 00:16:31,415 that, is that relationship worth it? 222 00:16:33,310 --> 00:16:35,230 I, I think that's really a lesson. 223 00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:43,230 And, and, and really you, you need to be able to identify that in 224 00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:46,070 order to be happy in a relationship. 225 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,270 Men and women are different, totally different. 226 00:16:51,130 --> 00:16:58,230 And I, I know that some of the things that I do drive my wife batty and 227 00:16:58,410 --> 00:17:03,640 it, it's something I don't intend to do and I never want to do it. 228 00:17:04,590 --> 00:17:07,319 However, it's reciprocal. 229 00:17:07,940 --> 00:17:09,319 It happens both ways. 230 00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:15,520 So we have to have that empathy towards one another, and it's hard to find. 231 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,510 Could, could you explain the book cover to me? 232 00:17:20,770 --> 00:17:24,910 Uh, I found your book cover so grabbing. 233 00:17:25,730 --> 00:17:25,760 Aah. 234 00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:26,250 Yeah, 235 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:31,795 I have a copy right here. 236 00:17:32,695 --> 00:17:36,155 Um, I call it my Year of Thorns. 237 00:17:36,775 --> 00:17:40,355 And actually I came up with the idea of the title from, do you remember 238 00:17:40,355 --> 00:17:42,755 that old movie War Of The Roses? 239 00:17:43,355 --> 00:17:46,635 I think it was, um, Douglas and Kathleen Turner. 240 00:17:46,775 --> 00:17:49,035 And they fight and they both die in the end. 241 00:17:49,145 --> 00:17:50,475 They go through a horrible divorce. 242 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:54,600 Um, it was a movie I watched during my divorce that that's what 243 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,720 inspired, and then, you know, my wedding ring and the two couples. 244 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:01,920 But, um, so that's where that came from. 245 00:18:03,460 --> 00:18:06,080 Uh, but it's, it, it was my year of struggle. 246 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:10,800 I mean, and it's, you know, going through those thorns, 247 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,560 those trials and tribulations. 248 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:16,800 Um, I always say, you know, Anything that's a challenge, anything you have 249 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:22,330 to work for, is worth it because it makes it that much more valuable. 250 00:18:22,649 --> 00:18:26,389 You know, my freedom now, my joy, my happiness, I had to go 251 00:18:26,389 --> 00:18:30,229 through that, um, in order to be happy and find my joy again. 252 00:18:31,450 --> 00:18:32,980 Yeah, but it's worth it. 253 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,860 And for so many people that are caught in a toxic relationship, 254 00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:39,500 it's not gonna get better. 255 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,500 And they really need to push through that fear, the fear of the 256 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:46,100 unknown, the fear of being alone. 257 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,940 Um, and you, you know, you're gonna have a struggle ahead, but it's worth it. 258 00:18:52,170 --> 00:18:53,980 It's, it's so worth it in the end. 259 00:18:55,645 --> 00:19:00,754 Could, could you tell people about how that was for you when 260 00:19:01,334 --> 00:19:04,875 you finally said, I've had enough and you broke out on your own? 261 00:19:06,419 --> 00:19:07,149 Well, yeah. 262 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:09,790 Well, I had a panic attack. 263 00:19:09,850 --> 00:19:12,629 It was like my body doing that fight or flight. 264 00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:16,629 I never had one before in my life, but I just knew that 265 00:19:16,629 --> 00:19:17,909 it was time to make a change. 266 00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:22,110 Otherwise I would've died, um, either by his hand or my own. 267 00:19:22,290 --> 00:19:24,189 It was bad, it was really bad. 268 00:19:24,530 --> 00:19:30,310 And so I made the conscious effort to leave and get divorced, but he 269 00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:31,350 wouldn't move out of the house. 270 00:19:31,929 --> 00:19:35,385 And I didn't have any money or a safe place to go. 271 00:19:35,565 --> 00:19:42,065 So we were in the same house for a year, um, going through a horrendous divorce. 272 00:19:43,045 --> 00:19:43,264 And 273 00:19:45,825 --> 00:19:50,985 I, nothing could have prepared me for what happened. 274 00:19:51,685 --> 00:19:55,504 Um, and there's nothing else I could have done in hindsight either. 275 00:19:56,004 --> 00:19:59,075 Um, it was bad, it was really bad. 276 00:19:59,095 --> 00:20:02,715 And I hate to scare people, but when you're, you're leaving a narcissist, 277 00:20:02,715 --> 00:20:04,355 their biggest fear is abandonment. 278 00:20:04,775 --> 00:20:08,115 And once they know you have your foot out the door, then 279 00:20:08,115 --> 00:20:09,555 you're in the discard phase. 280 00:20:10,135 --> 00:20:12,875 And they will do anything in their power to take you down. 281 00:20:13,705 --> 00:20:16,035 It's, you know, there's no mercy. 282 00:20:16,145 --> 00:20:19,075 There's, it, it's zero empathy, zero. 283 00:20:19,695 --> 00:20:19,915 Um, 284 00:20:22,155 --> 00:20:24,895 I'm the one with sweat over, I'm looking for compassion. 285 00:20:25,365 --> 00:20:27,695 It's a game that they have to win at all costs. 286 00:20:27,755 --> 00:20:31,815 So it is kinda like a year of thrones, but a year of thorns. 287 00:20:33,165 --> 00:20:33,455 Yeah. 288 00:20:36,429 --> 00:20:36,720 Yeah. 289 00:20:37,780 --> 00:20:44,280 You know, you highlighted, uh, four key tips to breaking free 290 00:20:44,429 --> 00:20:49,879 from a toxic relationship, and I find these very interesting. 291 00:20:50,540 --> 00:20:51,760 One, overcome fear. 292 00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:57,110 Uh, two, be prepared. 293 00:20:57,110 --> 00:21:01,690 I, I, I would of thought that would've been the biggest one. 294 00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:05,250 But you're, you're, you're the one that went through this, so 295 00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:07,050 that's very interesting to me. 296 00:21:08,510 --> 00:21:11,920 Well, I had, I had, I had said something to him though about, 297 00:21:11,950 --> 00:21:15,680 like years before, that I didn't feel our marriage was working and 298 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,480 I thought I needed a separation. 299 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:23,640 And that was the first phase of the discard phase, things got 300 00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:26,760 potentially, um, worse after that. 301 00:21:27,380 --> 00:21:29,284 Um, yeah. 302 00:21:29,385 --> 00:21:32,044 So there are things you can do to prepare. 303 00:21:32,044 --> 00:21:36,405 But when you get to that point where you are fighting for your life, sometimes 304 00:21:36,425 --> 00:21:38,085 you don't have that time to prepare. 305 00:21:40,574 --> 00:21:47,004 And, and you, you said you had no support network because you kept on moving. 306 00:21:47,985 --> 00:21:48,205 So 307 00:21:51,855 --> 00:21:55,195 how did you find the support to break away? 308 00:21:58,465 --> 00:22:03,554 Well, when I initially had expressed my desire to leave, um, we were 309 00:22:03,554 --> 00:22:04,554 living in a foreign country. 310 00:22:05,375 --> 00:22:09,354 So I had three small children, no money of my own, it wasn't just like I could 311 00:22:09,354 --> 00:22:10,995 pack up my kids and hop on a plane. 312 00:22:11,264 --> 00:22:12,074 Like, where do you go? 313 00:22:12,814 --> 00:22:14,794 And you know, I called the police many times. 314 00:22:15,135 --> 00:22:18,594 But most of the time they didn't speak our language. 315 00:22:19,254 --> 00:22:23,995 And he knew I couldn't put him in, in jail because we relied on his income. 316 00:22:25,514 --> 00:22:27,895 So there was only so much I could do at the time. 317 00:22:28,804 --> 00:22:29,095 Yeah. 318 00:22:29,095 --> 00:22:30,455 It was, it was a struggle. 319 00:22:33,125 --> 00:22:33,435 Yeah. 320 00:22:33,794 --> 00:22:35,264 That's a place to be. 321 00:22:35,835 --> 00:22:39,095 Uh, number three, believe in yourself. 322 00:22:40,764 --> 00:22:47,294 That, that seems to be a big one, you know, to take that power step of action. 323 00:22:48,345 --> 00:22:53,165 It, it really takes this leap of faith. 324 00:22:54,615 --> 00:22:57,785 You know, believing in yourself. 325 00:22:58,815 --> 00:23:01,185 So that tends to be 326 00:23:03,940 --> 00:23:04,160 Yes. 327 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:07,600 You know, you gotta trust your gut and trust to that inner voice. 328 00:23:07,860 --> 00:23:10,920 For so long he told me I was crazy for so long. 329 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,520 He, you know, said I was making a big deal out of everything or exaggerating. 330 00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:21,640 But I knew deep down that that voice said, No, you're entitled to love and kindness, 331 00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:28,120 and respect, and, um, to be cherished and treated with, like everybody should. 332 00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:30,649 You just gotta listen to that inner voice. 333 00:23:30,679 --> 00:23:33,250 That sometimes when you're in a controlling 334 00:23:33,250 --> 00:23:35,319 relationship, it gets silented. 335 00:23:36,479 --> 00:23:36,770 Yeah. 336 00:23:38,879 --> 00:23:39,169 Yeah. 337 00:23:39,639 --> 00:23:40,490 Yeah, I like that. 338 00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:47,729 And the fourth one, stop telling the story of your suffering year. 339 00:23:48,689 --> 00:23:55,330 I find this one very interesting and probably the most important of all. 340 00:23:57,929 --> 00:23:59,679 Could you speak about that, please? 341 00:24:01,909 --> 00:24:04,520 Well, you've kind of touched on it with your muddy boot story. 342 00:24:05,139 --> 00:24:06,360 Um, yeah. 343 00:24:06,669 --> 00:24:10,480 It's, it's about, you know, looking forward and not back. 344 00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:11,560 Um, 345 00:24:13,870 --> 00:24:17,760 it's, it's, if you keep talking about, Oh my God, they did this to me, and 346 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,840 this happened and this happened, it's almost like you're manifesting it 347 00:24:21,899 --> 00:24:23,919 to keep coming back into your life. 348 00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:31,940 Instead, I prefer to talk about my year of survival or, um, yeah. 349 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,630 And so I'm a survivor and thriver now, I'm not a victim. 350 00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:40,320 There's different ways you can, you know, it's that, that inner narrative. 351 00:24:40,820 --> 00:24:42,520 And I really struggled with that. 352 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,159 'Cause for so many years, like I said, I was conditioned. 353 00:24:45,620 --> 00:24:49,159 I'm not pretty enough, and I'm not skinny enough, I was never enough. 354 00:24:49,899 --> 00:24:51,840 Um, no one else will love me. 355 00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:59,480 You know, and, and it's just, you gotta cut those chains and silent that narrative 356 00:24:59,899 --> 00:25:07,565 and try to be more optimistic and manifest a more positive thriving survival mode. 357 00:25:09,035 --> 00:25:09,325 Yeah. 358 00:25:10,235 --> 00:25:10,525 Yeah. 359 00:25:10,825 --> 00:25:16,445 Was, was there some way that helped you shift your mindset into a more 360 00:25:16,885 --> 00:25:19,365 positive, constructive mindset? 361 00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:22,955 It's taken me a long time, I admit it. 362 00:25:23,675 --> 00:25:26,075 I went through therapy, lots of counselors. 363 00:25:26,695 --> 00:25:31,315 You know, now there's so much on narcissism, so I really 364 00:25:31,345 --> 00:25:33,395 resonated with more of that. 365 00:25:33,415 --> 00:25:39,635 But then also, um, for me, finding God, um, bringing Him more into my life and 366 00:25:39,635 --> 00:25:45,315 knowing that He loves me and, um, that I need to love myself like He does. 367 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,340 And just putting my, my faith in Him and my future. 368 00:25:54,139 --> 00:26:01,719 So, Kimber, do you have plans of trying to find love or did the narcissistic 369 00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:04,360 individual break that out of you? 370 00:26:05,860 --> 00:26:06,320 Oh, no. 371 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,879 I loved being married. 372 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,050 I mean, when I look back, we had some great times. 373 00:26:11,230 --> 00:26:14,010 We have three beautiful children, I lived all over the world. 374 00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:18,690 I mean, I had a life that a lot of people would be envious of. 375 00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:23,050 Um, you know, and I try to look at that and be thankful for that. 376 00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:26,970 And I wanna have it again but I, you know, I'm a little guarded. 377 00:26:28,330 --> 00:26:29,889 I am, so I'm looking. 378 00:26:30,750 --> 00:26:35,370 You know, but I, like I said, I had to take time to love myself again too. 379 00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:40,379 Until I was, you know, healed enough that I could be a good 380 00:26:40,379 --> 00:26:41,340 partner for somebody else. 381 00:26:43,399 --> 00:26:45,260 You know, that, that's very interesting. 382 00:26:45,379 --> 00:26:50,780 I, I like that a lot, that statement, you know, healing yourself so you can 383 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,459 be a better partner for somebody else. 384 00:26:54,409 --> 00:27:00,820 That, that really highlights, uh, a caring nature that you really want it to work. 385 00:27:01,975 --> 00:27:04,955 So I, I find that very inspirational. 386 00:27:05,274 --> 00:27:07,034 I, I wish you well on that. 387 00:27:08,095 --> 00:27:13,555 Is there anything in our conversation that we haven't covered that you 388 00:27:13,555 --> 00:27:14,875 would like to highlight today? 389 00:27:15,815 --> 00:27:19,754 Oh, well, I would like to offer to your, um, viewers and listeners, I also 390 00:27:19,754 --> 00:27:25,355 wrote this Divorce Checklist, it's the Ultimate Survival Guide to freedom. 391 00:27:26,215 --> 00:27:31,370 So I found that when I was going through my divorce and we were spending so 392 00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:33,770 much money on attorneys left and right. 393 00:27:34,290 --> 00:27:36,130 I researched everything on the internet. 394 00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:40,050 I had never been divorced, I had no idea what I was doing. 395 00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:43,410 Um, it's so important to have a good source. 396 00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:47,490 So this is, um, I'm gonna offer it free to your listeners. 397 00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:51,290 Um, but it's just a good checklist of things that you need to cover, 398 00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:55,570 things to consider, but more importantly, also if you have children. 399 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:03,070 Because the, the level of conflict between parents really affects 400 00:28:03,570 --> 00:28:04,830 the children in a divorce. 401 00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:10,830 And if you can eliminate that or identify a lot of the key components through 402 00:28:10,830 --> 00:28:13,790 the process, or in your separation, or in your divorce decree, which is 403 00:28:13,790 --> 00:28:16,669 your Holy Bible, um, it's important. 404 00:28:17,685 --> 00:28:20,445 'Cause a lot of times when you're divorcing a narcissist, they'll say, 405 00:28:20,705 --> 00:28:22,605 Oh, that's what child support is for. 406 00:28:23,024 --> 00:28:27,485 It doesn't fall under the normal canopy of food, shelter, and clothing. 407 00:28:27,665 --> 00:28:31,445 Or, um, you know, but what about sports equipment? 408 00:28:31,445 --> 00:28:32,485 What about driver's training? 409 00:28:32,485 --> 00:28:37,045 What about proms and weddings and all these things later on in life? 410 00:28:37,514 --> 00:28:43,125 It's really important that those things are agreed upon prior to a divorce. 411 00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:45,720 And so that's what this guide is. 412 00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:49,120 Hopefully a little, I'd call it armor, to help you get through it. 413 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:50,310 Yeah. 414 00:28:50,570 --> 00:28:52,470 You know, divorce is scary. 415 00:28:52,650 --> 00:29:00,950 And you know, just to think about it, it is one of those taboo subjects for many. 416 00:29:01,250 --> 00:29:07,065 And to help people that are actually going through that, that can 417 00:29:07,065 --> 00:29:10,025 be a very strong tool for them. 418 00:29:10,445 --> 00:29:11,985 So thank you for offering that. 419 00:29:12,685 --> 00:29:12,905 Uh, 420 00:29:15,885 --> 00:29:19,725 I would like to say thank you for sharing your story with us today. 421 00:29:20,065 --> 00:29:27,125 You know, there are many people out there struggling and people like you are 422 00:29:27,145 --> 00:29:29,205 out there helping them get through it. 423 00:29:29,505 --> 00:29:38,735 So, I, I really wish you well on your journey, and I would like to invite you 424 00:29:38,925 --> 00:29:48,314 back and tell us more about your story at a later date about a rekindling. 425 00:29:48,814 --> 00:29:53,635 You know, because life carries on and the story is never ending. 426 00:29:54,415 --> 00:29:57,314 So do you have a call to action for our listeners today? 427 00:29:58,980 --> 00:29:59,200 Um, 428 00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:05,280 if you're in a toxic relationship, don't let fear hold you back. 429 00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:11,800 Listen to your gut and, you know, push beyond those boundaries so 430 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,800 that you can live a happy, joyous life that was meant for you. 431 00:30:17,930 --> 00:30:18,419 Awesome. 432 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,419 And can you let people know how to get in touch with you? 433 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,340 Uh, get your book? 434 00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:30,800 And anything else social you would like to share? 435 00:30:33,015 --> 00:30:36,465 Yeah, so you can get, um, both my Year of Thorns and The 436 00:30:36,465 --> 00:30:38,305 Divorce Checklist on Amazon. 437 00:30:38,855 --> 00:30:41,185 It's available in Kindle and Audible. 438 00:30:41,725 --> 00:30:44,905 Now, I wanna preface that I'm not a professional writer. 439 00:30:45,445 --> 00:30:50,145 It was my journal and I wished I'd waited until like ChatGPT did or something 440 00:30:50,685 --> 00:30:52,185 so it was a little more professional. 441 00:30:52,325 --> 00:30:56,355 But, you know, I'm, I'm just an ordinary person, I'm just a woman who was 442 00:30:56,355 --> 00:30:59,275 married for thirty years and broke free. 443 00:30:59,415 --> 00:31:03,955 And I hope that by sharing my story, I can help a few people along the way. 444 00:31:04,535 --> 00:31:08,355 And I have a website, it's called yearofthorns.com. 445 00:31:08,495 --> 00:31:11,835 And I have a blog on there with a bunch of, um, blogs I've 446 00:31:11,835 --> 00:31:15,515 written, and I've shared a lot of my other podcasts on there too. 447 00:31:15,655 --> 00:31:17,195 But they can reach me there as well. 448 00:31:19,544 --> 00:31:20,034 Awesome. 449 00:31:21,175 --> 00:31:24,635 All right, Kimber, it's been a fascinating discussion with you. 450 00:31:24,794 --> 00:31:27,715 I wanna say thank you for sharing here today on the podcast with us. 451 00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:29,240 Thank you. 452 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,280 Thank you for having me. 453 00:31:33,490 --> 00:31:35,160 Thank you for joining us today. 454 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:41,920 If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, 455 00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:49,199 please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another 456 00:31:49,330 --> 00:31:52,280 great episode of the Dead America Podcast. 457 00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:58,399 I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.