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Today, we are speaking with Eric Brazau.

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He is an author of a
book, Muslim Reformers vs.

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Fundamentalists.

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Eric, could you please introduce yourself
and let people know just a little more

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about you before we get started, please?

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I've been in Toronto now since 2001.

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I got here just after 9/11,
I mean, the winter of.

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I'm originally from Montreal.

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I grew up in Montreal in both
languages, English and French.

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When I was much younger, I spoke
Polish with my grandparents.

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I studied theatre in Montreal
for quite a long while at various

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levels of amateur, semi professional
basis on different plays.

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Shakespeare, Harold Pinter,
Chekhov, all of the classics

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as well as some contemporaries.

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I, for business reasons, I came
out to Toronto in 2001, 2002.

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At that point, um, I understood, I got
involved by accident, now my life seems to

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be around messaging, um, the proper, the
better way to message and talk to people

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who are on the other side of your opinion
or the other side of your argument.

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And I started out into this, I,
this whole world of political

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manifestations and activism and arguing
with the subject matter of Islam.

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That's how I started.

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So as much as Islam is a large part
of what I do, the subsequent part,

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the part B to the, uh, to the main
part, is how to engage with other

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people who are in conflict with
yourself in a manner that could

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possibly lead to something productive.

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That's the part B of what we do.

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What you're doing is very
important in our world today, Eric.

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Because a lot of people like
to argue about nothing, really.

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But when we really boil it down, we're all
human beings and we live here together.

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So, your book, Muslim Reformers vs.

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Fundamentalists, came out of this
journey, this, kind of a, uh, odd thing.

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Because you weren't Muslim,
you were actually Islamophobic.

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And that's very interesting, because
many of us, if we're not of Islam,

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we're, we're leery of it because of what
the media brought in because of 9/11.

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It's an interesting journey you
took from being an Islamophobe to

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whatever you consider yourself now.

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Could you walk us through the journey
of that transformation and what it

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is now that you believe you are?

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Well, I'll start with what you just said.

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And if I veer away too
far, please bring me back.

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Because I can end up on tangents.

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I don't identify, I don't, I,
when you just said right now,

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tell us what you are, I'm nothing
different than I was in the past.

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I'm the same person.

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I've come to make some realizations.

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And those realizations are

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the more you tell people that
they are wrong and that you are

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right, the more they don't like it.

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If for no other reason than, you might
be right and they might be wrong,

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that's, that no longer becomes the issue.

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The issue becomes they just don't like it,

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end of story.

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So very often people can reject a
message simply because they don't like

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the people who are bringing them that
message, because they're conflated.

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So if we remember back to when we were
fifteen years old and some teacher

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or your mother said, You're wrong
because you're a child and I'm right

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because I know, you no longer cared
about what was true or not true.

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You just said, Why are you the boss of me?

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Who do you think you are?

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And you just, you just didn't, you
just rejected their message outright.

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I came to realize, wait a second,
that could be why people hate me.

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Of course, there's those who liked my
message, were fans of my message, were

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fans of my approach, but there were a
lot of people who rejected the message

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simply because they rejected my manner
of bringing this message to them.

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Rightly or wrongly is not the issue,
they saw me as somewhat arrogant.

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And to some extent, I was arrogant
because I was certain in my position

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that I was right and they were wrong.

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So that already sets up a conflict of
personalities between you and others.

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Something happened at, in 2017, and
I go through that in the book, to

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which I had to re evaluate all of my
stances on everything regarding Islam.

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So I threw everything that I knew out
the window, I started again, and then I

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went on a journey to learn about Islam.

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Not from the perspective of Saudi Arabia,
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Qatar.

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I made the conscious decision to try
to get it, to understand Islam from

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the perspective of the Canadian, North
American, Western European nations.

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What are the leaders and the Muslim
communities from here saying?

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Because many of us say, Well, if we see
a Saudi Arabia Imam spouting what he

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spouts, We assume that that's Islam.

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Or is ISIS Islam, or is Al Qaeda
Islam, and if we don't like that,

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therefore we, we see all of Islam as
those entities that we don't like.

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Or we conflate them.

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So that's the journey that I went on,
was to say, Okay, I'm going to start

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again, I'm starting, and I've been,
I was doing this for four, five, six

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years prior to my, uh, my new approach.

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So it took a lot of internal
fortitude, and ego breaking, and

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Oh my goodness, what did I do?

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To, and now I've written two
books, soon to publish two more.

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And I've discovered not just the, so
I've become not just an expert or an

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authority of somewhat, some, some,
uh, measure on what Islam, what the

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leaders of Islam are saying Islam is.

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But I am becoming an expert on
how to message people or how to

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have engaging conversations that
are fruitful with people who are

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diametrically opposed to your position.

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How do we do that?

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What's the recipe?

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Because I don't want to, again,
no one likes to be lectured to.

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And I used to lecture people
about what I know, and why I'm

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right, and why you're wrong.

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I don't lecture anymore.

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So it's about a free flowing of
information, and I think as I mentioned in

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what I sent to you, you have to be open to
listening to what they're actually saying.

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Many of us, and I knew this prior,
when we're in conversations, especially

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heated ones, very often we wait for the
other person to finish talking only so

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that we can say what we want to say.

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Without listening to what, so this,
we're not, we're not sharing information,

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we're just waiting for our turn
to impose our information on them.

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And I've reevaluated that, and
I turned that completely around,

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and I'm willing to learn from you.

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Why is it that you believe
what it is that you believe?

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And more important is, why do
you believe what you believe?

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And what I've also found, more often
than not, people do not know or have any

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inkling as to why they believe what they
believe, other than the people around

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them that they like and believe that.

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That is, that's correct, Eric.

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Let me bust in right there for a minute.

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You know, that's a very important aspect
of what you're trying to convey to people.

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Is, you know, the conversation thing.

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Waiting to just respond with what you
have to say instead of listening, and

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then responding to what someone said.

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You know, there's a big difference.

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And, and that does create more
tension in a good conversation.

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And so many of us, we have to
be able to defend ourselves.

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And like you just said, a lot of us, we're
defending what our ancestors told us.

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And it's just heritage on down.

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And even in my own religion, it
says beware of traditions of men.

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Because it's dangerous.

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And, religion and politics, they're
the two driving forces in our world

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that matter the most and everybody
wants to argue about them and

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many of us don't even realize
what we're arguing about.

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Like you just said.

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The Constitution is the driving force here
in America and most Americans don't have

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a clue what the Constitution even says.

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I understand that a hundred
percent just by observation.

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And I think it's really important
for people like you being out there.

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You know, when I first came onto this
and I'd seen Muslim Reformers vs.

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Fundamentalists, my mind
automatically clicked to, Oh,

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this is something religious.

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And, but really it's not
about religion at all.

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And this is what makes it
so valuable to mankind.

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Religion is just a mechanism for people.

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Uh, it's part of the framework
of what makes us who we are.

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And if, if we don't understand
the framework, we're just,

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If I can just interject one second,
it's not, it's, religion is not

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the framework of who we are, it's
the framework of, or it can be

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the framework of our civilization.

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Correct.

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And you're absolutely right,
that is exactly what I was

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kind of pointing towards.

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Maybe I worded that incorrect, but
yes, you're absolutely correct.

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But I don't want to
get you off your topic.

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You were going, you were saying the
framework of who our civilization is, can

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be, and usually is religion, or it can
be the politics, it has to be something.

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So, but, but what, why, you said
when you first saw the book, when

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you first saw the book, you thought
it was going to be religion.

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Yes, you know, it automatically framed
my mind into this frame of, Oh, this

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is going to be a religious,  you
know, Muslim versus Christian topic.

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And that is the furthest from
what this topic truly is.

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And I really want people to take
note of this because it takes

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ourselves to understand that.

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And we have to reframe from that
instantaneous, oh, shock and awe.

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That's what 9/11 was.

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And that's what drew so many of us to this
Islamophobia that many of us still today

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suffer from many years after the attacks.

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And that gets into a lot of drama anyway.

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But my point here is we always
grab the headline and we don't

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say, What do you mean about that?

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Correct.

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Um,

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I, I'm very wary of using the word
Islamophobia myself as someone who

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blogs and writes and been thinking about
this now for going on to twelve years.

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Because a phobia implies
an irrational fear.

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So there's this, like a
mental illness of sorts.

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You know, arachnophobia,
claustrophobia, germophobia.

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It's something that's irrational.

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So, as opposed to saying a phobia,
what we can, which is actually,

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and even people here in Canada are
starting to have this conversation,

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it really comes down to what is
misinformation and what is disinformation.

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And how do we act upon and who decides
what is and is not disinformation

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and misinformation, right?

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So

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when someone says,

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Islamophobia, like you just did,
and it's a very innocent, innocuous

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word in today's lingua franca.

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Well, what do you, when someone
says to me, Do you believe in God?

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And I've come across that
question several times.

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Well, how do you define God for me to
say whether I believe in it or not?

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Like, what is your definition of God?

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Because I can't say I do or I don't
if I don't know how you define God.

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For example, if someone says,
Do you believe in justice?

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Well, okay, like, it's hard not to
believe in justice, but please define your

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meaning of, how do you define justice?

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So how can I agree with you or not
if we haven't come to, it's called

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first principles, basic principles.

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Before we can actually answer
what, do you believe in justice?

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Okay, let's have a conversation
of how you define justice.

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Then once you've defined it, then I can
tell you if I'm in agreement or not.

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And very often we have conversations
about so many topics to which

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no one has the, the two people
discussing are not even in agreement

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of, what are the basic principles?

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What is the foundation?

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And so,

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So Eric, does that mean that we're lazy
when we start having these conversations?

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Wonderful.

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That's actually a very
insightful question.

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Lazy, sloppy, I prefer to put it down
to, because people spend a lot of

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energy in these conversations, they
scream, they yell, they get red faced,

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some people look like they're gonna
have a, some people you would think

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they're going to have a heart attack,

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they start frothing at the
mouth, they're not lazy, sloppy.

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And many people, we have learned,
if we are more passionate about

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something, or if we demonstrate
passion, it will somehow, it adds to

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the convincing of our righteousness.

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And very often it can be the opposite.

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The more you're passionate and yelling
and show your righteous indignation,

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it means you have no legs to stand on.

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Believe me because I'm screaming
and yelling, believe me because I

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know and look how passionate I am.

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So please believe me, you must believe me.

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I don't know why you must
believe me, but just believe me.

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So where can you go from here?

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That, that was me when
I started podcasting.

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It was many of us, many of us.

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And especially when you're fourteen,
fifteen, seventeen, twenty, you, you

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have some, there's something that
happens to us at a young age where

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we start to think we know so much.

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00:18:49,735 --> 00:18:53,375
There's a thing about youth, it
must be the brain, something happens

227
00:18:53,635 --> 00:18:55,105
that you just think you're so smart.

228
00:18:57,455 --> 00:19:00,325
And then we bring, we carry
that forward into adulthood.

229
00:19:03,745 --> 00:19:07,375
So, I don't know what, you know, so
go ahead, ask me another question.

230
00:19:07,375 --> 00:19:11,214
But we're, seem to be in agreement here,
you need to argue with me a bit more.

231
00:19:16,644 --> 00:19:23,214
Well, that's, that's what the Dead
America Podcast is about, is kinda making

232
00:19:23,264 --> 00:19:28,065
people come together and understand
we're all different, and there's really

233
00:19:28,065 --> 00:19:31,060
nothing that we're arguing about.

234
00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:36,645
Because if we really sit down and
have an intellectual conversation,

235
00:19:36,645 --> 00:19:43,780
we'll actually find out a lot of
the times we're on the same page.

236
00:19:44,460 --> 00:19:44,629
Yep.

237
00:19:46,049 --> 00:19:47,800
Actually, if I may interrupt you.

238
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,099
May I interrupt you, please?

239
00:19:49,650 --> 00:19:51,029
Please, may I interrupt you?

240
00:19:51,339 --> 00:19:51,839
Very important.

241
00:19:53,869 --> 00:19:58,330
What you just said is wrong,
we're not all on the same page.

242
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:06,639
Now if, say we had a town of 150, 000
people and we had a meeting where we're

243
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:10,189
going to buy the new firetrucks, right?

244
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:19,570
And some people wanted the fire
trucks to be, uh, neon yellow, so

245
00:20:19,570 --> 00:20:21,389
that it's, you can see it from afar.

246
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:25,429
And other people said, No,
we want it to be fashionable.

247
00:20:25,429 --> 00:20:29,450
So we want it to be like an orange
that blends into the background,

248
00:20:29,450 --> 00:20:30,689
so that it's not so obtrusive.

249
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,850
Well, some people have a different idea
on what color the fire trucks should be.

250
00:20:40,420 --> 00:20:44,840
But, they all agree we need fire trucks.

251
00:20:46,949 --> 00:20:51,610
They all agree that fires should
be fought and extinguished,

252
00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:54,540
that's on the same page.

253
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:03,440
If another group of people at the city
council are arguing that we should not

254
00:21:03,450 --> 00:21:08,409
have fire trucks, that fire is a good
thing and we should let buildings burn.

255
00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:11,290
That's a different page,

256
00:21:14,989 --> 00:21:15,239
right?

257
00:21:15,239 --> 00:21:20,400
So what you just did, the smart
person that you are, and as you're

258
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,800
becoming on a journey, is you
said something that's not true.

259
00:21:24,139 --> 00:21:27,345
It's a platitude, we're
not all on the same page.

260
00:21:27,835 --> 00:21:35,075
For example, some people say the border
wall should be six feet high, some

261
00:21:35,075 --> 00:21:36,685
people say it should be done this way.

262
00:21:37,755 --> 00:21:39,784
Some people want to spend
more money, less money.

263
00:21:41,305 --> 00:21:43,904
But there are other people who
say we should not have a border

264
00:21:43,905 --> 00:21:45,715
wall, we should not have a border.

265
00:21:47,764 --> 00:21:49,605
So that's not the same page anymore.

266
00:21:49,605 --> 00:21:55,485
So before you can argue with someone
about how high or what's the effective

267
00:21:55,565 --> 00:22:01,360
way to build a border wall, the first
question is, do we all agree here

268
00:22:01,510 --> 00:22:06,410
that a border wall, and I'm using this
as an example, but do we all agree

269
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:08,399
that we need a, we need a border?

270
00:22:09,129 --> 00:22:12,769
Because if someone says, We should
not have a border, well, then you

271
00:22:12,769 --> 00:22:15,460
cannot have, you cannot discuss what
the border wall should look like.

272
00:22:17,610 --> 00:22:20,410
They're not on the same page.

273
00:22:20,410 --> 00:22:24,750
So what are the, so before we, so
when you come to our, when we, when

274
00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:29,229
we organize the meeting, we have to
say, This is a meeting for people

275
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:36,139
who believe and support a border wall
or support a border to begin with.

276
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:39,050
That's correct.

277
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,040
So, so, you know, Eric, that,
that's interesting because there

278
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:49,220
again, that was me being lazy.

279
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,700
You know, I did not think deep enough
into what I was actually saying and

280
00:22:55,700 --> 00:23:00,020
the meaning of what my intent was.

281
00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:05,730
So, it's good that we're having this
conversation because it illustrates

282
00:23:05,779 --> 00:23:16,970
to people the importance to be
poignant, and that, that, that's

283
00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:20,769
very lacking in our society today.

284
00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:27,409
People don't know how to get specific
anymore, it's too much granularity around.

285
00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:28,989
Correct.

286
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:30,510
Yes.

287
00:23:30,730 --> 00:23:31,220
So,

288
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,270
because I've practiced this technique
of having conversations and being

289
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:43,950
granular for the last seven, eight
years, actually, for a long time, and

290
00:23:43,950 --> 00:23:49,980
that was how I used to, I was able to,
you know, in some manner of speaking,

291
00:23:49,989 --> 00:23:57,289
demonstrate my superior abilities as I
was able to crush people in conversations.

292
00:23:58,930 --> 00:24:01,950
And I wasn't nice about it, I would
just show them up to be fools.

293
00:24:02,090 --> 00:24:05,920
And then again, that's not so nice,
but I'm just expressing my journey.

294
00:24:06,530 --> 00:24:06,810
Yeah.

295
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:09,380
Well, that's what we're here for.

296
00:24:10,939 --> 00:24:19,439
Most, so most people will say nice
things, like we're all on the same page.

297
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:25,600
You know, they say nice things, not
understanding what are the implications

298
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,590
of those nice things that they're saying.

299
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:38,360
So let's assume you make a statement,
or you hold an opinion, or a concept

300
00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:43,109
that's not necessarily wrong,

301
00:24:45,149 --> 00:24:47,309
but it's not particularly correct.

302
00:24:47,849 --> 00:24:53,750
It's not particularly on
point, it's off by 10%.

303
00:24:55,159 --> 00:24:57,819
So 90%, you would say,
Well that's good, it's 90%.

304
00:24:58,455 --> 00:24:58,845
Sure.

305
00:24:59,925 --> 00:25:00,795
Do you sail?

306
00:25:02,015 --> 00:25:03,135
Have you ever been on the water?

307
00:25:05,505 --> 00:25:06,265
Okay, very good.

308
00:25:07,225 --> 00:25:07,705
Very good.

309
00:25:07,775 --> 00:25:08,055
Okay.

310
00:25:08,055 --> 00:25:14,045
So say you are, I don't know, uh, six
kilometers, three miles out into the

311
00:25:14,045 --> 00:25:17,334
lake, and you got to go back home.

312
00:25:18,424 --> 00:25:22,134
Now you know back home
is somewhere over there,

313
00:25:24,465 --> 00:25:26,795
but you're not really sure
where it is over there.

314
00:25:26,795 --> 00:25:30,145
Is it two degrees to that side,
three degrees to that side?

315
00:25:30,445 --> 00:25:36,790
You kind of have a general idea, but if
you're off by three degrees, starting from

316
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,670
three miles out, all of a sudden, you're
500 meters or 500, you're half a mile

317
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,440
downwind of where you actually need to be.

318
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,609
It's like, now if you're off by one,
or two, or three degrees and you're

319
00:25:50,610 --> 00:25:56,270
only 500 meters away from where you're
going, you're going to be off by

320
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:58,470
three, four, five, seven, ten feet.

321
00:25:59,780 --> 00:26:04,330
The further out you are, that
three degrees or five degrees

322
00:26:04,350 --> 00:26:06,460
becomes a lot of distance.

323
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:15,489
So as a, it's again, if, if I'm in,
if I'm sitting in front of you and I

324
00:26:15,540 --> 00:26:20,459
point a pistol at your forehead, well,
I'm probably not going to miss whether

325
00:26:20,459 --> 00:26:23,580
I'm two degrees this way or that way,
because I'm right in front of you.

326
00:26:24,790 --> 00:26:29,460
But if I'm, you know, thirty,
thirty feet away from you, now

327
00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:30,929
I got to be dead on accurate.

328
00:26:33,020 --> 00:26:36,850
So the same can happen with the
civilization, with the conversation,

329
00:26:36,850 --> 00:26:38,854
with the culture, with a nation.

330
00:26:39,965 --> 00:26:45,585
It takes, it takes a lot of time
to build a nation, to build a

331
00:26:45,585 --> 00:26:47,065
culture, to, you know, to, to build.

332
00:26:47,145 --> 00:26:48,375
It takes time.

333
00:26:49,534 --> 00:26:54,854
Especially the more intricate, to build
something, the more it takes effort.

334
00:26:55,914 --> 00:27:01,164
But if you make, if we start making all
of these platitudes and accepting all of

335
00:27:01,225 --> 00:27:06,554
these concepts just because they sound
good, and they may be more or less good,

336
00:27:07,145 --> 00:27:09,175
but more or less doesn't quite cut it.

337
00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:19,570
And so, I'm a, I'm a proponent
of if you don't know what you're

338
00:27:19,580 --> 00:27:21,990
talking about, just don't talk.

339
00:27:23,929 --> 00:27:26,090
Not everyone is an
expert on every subject.

340
00:27:27,630 --> 00:27:35,080
I asked, when I was in jail for my
Islamophobia back in, several years ago,

341
00:27:37,399 --> 00:27:41,235
met a man, a black guy, maybe he
was thirty-five years old, we had a

342
00:27:41,235 --> 00:27:43,275
conversation, or I asked him something.

343
00:27:44,795 --> 00:27:48,705
And now it's odd because here I am
in this environment and he said,

344
00:27:48,904 --> 00:27:52,915
I cannot give an opinion because I
don't know much about this subject.

345
00:27:54,815 --> 00:27:55,475
He said that.

346
00:27:56,014 --> 00:28:00,045
How often have you said that, or
have you heard someone say that?

347
00:28:01,725 --> 00:28:04,355
Myself, I say it quite a bit.

348
00:28:04,385 --> 00:28:07,325
If I don't have a clue, I admit it.

349
00:28:07,845 --> 00:28:10,855
But I always have an opinion.

350
00:28:12,350 --> 00:28:17,180
Well, there you, like he, but he
said, I don't have an opinion because

351
00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:18,780
I know nothing about this subject.

352
00:28:19,310 --> 00:28:21,250
Well, I know I don't know
enough about the subject.

353
00:28:22,650 --> 00:28:26,240
As a concept, everyone thinks if
they have an opinion, it's valid.

354
00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:31,749
Because it's, and that's, that's
the problem as a society, we've, as

355
00:28:31,749 --> 00:28:38,445
a society, we seem to have set up a
paradigm where all opinions are equal.

356
00:28:40,675 --> 00:28:41,785
You've heard that, correct?

357
00:28:45,225 --> 00:28:48,004
I say that's wrong, no way.

358
00:28:48,735 --> 00:28:49,754
No way, Jose.

359
00:28:50,664 --> 00:28:55,804
My mother had opinions on everything,
she had opinions on car engines.

360
00:28:57,144 --> 00:29:01,024
She wasn't a mechanic, but yet she knew.

361
00:29:01,485 --> 00:29:03,774
You know, a lot of people, if
you, especially if you think

362
00:29:03,894 --> 00:29:07,035
back to your mothers and stuff,
everyone, or some people, everyone

363
00:29:07,044 --> 00:29:08,695
has opinions on everything.

364
00:29:14,075 --> 00:29:16,154
I don't have any opinions on astrophysics,

365
00:29:18,415 --> 00:29:23,635
I have no opinions on black holes and time
warps, and, I don't know much about this.

366
00:29:25,744 --> 00:29:28,055
I don't talk about it, other than
to say, Wow, that's interesting.

367
00:29:28,334 --> 00:29:31,865
So if somebody gave me his opinion
on black holes and time travel,

368
00:29:32,614 --> 00:29:34,044
I would not argue with them.

369
00:29:34,045 --> 00:29:39,294
I would just nod my head and
say, Hmm, that's interesting.

370
00:29:39,985 --> 00:29:43,945
Well, that's part of how we
learn through conversations.

371
00:29:43,965 --> 00:29:51,764
If we're interested in a topic or a
subject, we have to ask questions to

372
00:29:51,764 --> 00:29:55,375
learn and that's part of discussion.

373
00:29:56,015 --> 00:30:07,290
However, if we're not sure, we do
tend to not want to say, I'm not sure.

374
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:14,850
And I've seen that many, many times
in my, about, time on this earth.

375
00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:21,869
But we, we definitely need to be
having conversations even if we're

376
00:30:21,949 --> 00:30:27,490
not aware of what's happening,
because that's how we learn.

377
00:30:31,050 --> 00:30:34,800
So yes, and we learn by asking questions.

378
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:44,705
I have asked people if we should have
open borders here in Canada, if everybody

379
00:30:44,705 --> 00:30:50,145
should be allowed to, I've asked this
question on camera, in places, in saunas,

380
00:30:50,824 --> 00:30:59,684
in, I used to do on camera interviews
with random strangers, many people, the

381
00:30:59,684 --> 00:31:07,800
vast majority of people, will never say,
Oh, immigration, because of, we have

382
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,909
a housing crisis here in Canada, it's
foods, everything, a lot of problems,

383
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:19,110
when I've asked people, Should we have,
should we slow down immigration, or

384
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:25,439
have a moratorium on immigration for the
time being, because of all these issues?

385
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:31,950
Most will respond, Oh, of course not,
we should not do that because, and they

386
00:31:31,950 --> 00:31:34,110
list off all of the regular reasons.

387
00:31:36,255 --> 00:31:37,095
I'll say, Fine.

388
00:31:38,695 --> 00:31:41,615
Do you have a lock on your front door?

389
00:31:43,895 --> 00:31:44,895
Everyone does.

390
00:31:45,875 --> 00:31:48,205
They look at me quite perplexed
when I ask them that question.

391
00:31:49,195 --> 00:31:54,664
Do you decide who can and
can not come into your home?

392
00:31:55,815 --> 00:31:56,635
Of course I do.

393
00:31:57,475 --> 00:32:02,814
Oh, so if random people just want to
walk into your home and start eating

394
00:32:02,814 --> 00:32:05,975
your food, is that acceptable to you?

395
00:32:06,015 --> 00:32:08,625
Oh, of course not, they'll answer.

396
00:32:09,005 --> 00:32:13,985
Well, then why is it okay for people to
just walk across the border and come into

397
00:32:13,985 --> 00:32:16,745
Canada and become citizens of our family?

398
00:32:18,565 --> 00:32:20,275
Why is it not the, you know?

399
00:32:20,465 --> 00:32:25,624
So many people will say, I believe in
open borders, I believe in whatever it

400
00:32:25,624 --> 00:32:31,524
is that they believe in, without ever
having truly thought about what are the

401
00:32:31,524 --> 00:32:34,555
implications of what they're saying.

402
00:32:36,275 --> 00:32:38,755
And so I'm not interested
in what people believe.

403
00:32:39,175 --> 00:32:40,445
Sorry, go ahead.

404
00:32:42,865 --> 00:32:47,774
The disease factor also in
immigration, you know, there's a

405
00:32:47,785 --> 00:32:50,914
reason why we isolate individuals.

406
00:32:51,474 --> 00:32:55,164
So yeah, you need to
think about these things.

407
00:32:57,415 --> 00:33:03,295
Well, so we need to, again, people
make statements without really fully

408
00:33:03,295 --> 00:33:06,195
understanding what are the implications
of their statements because their

409
00:33:06,265 --> 00:33:09,185
statements are usually not challenged.

410
00:33:11,644 --> 00:33:15,655
Again, so that's why I come back,
I'm not so much interested in arguing

411
00:33:15,655 --> 00:33:18,784
against people's ideas or opinions.

412
00:33:18,825 --> 00:33:23,115
Because ultimately, everyone who
believes what they believe would

413
00:33:23,115 --> 00:33:25,265
like to share that with others.

414
00:33:27,405 --> 00:33:32,345
I mean, at some point, we believe,
I mean, a Republican is a Republican

415
00:33:32,355 --> 00:33:34,835
for a reason, and he's not a Democrat.

416
00:33:35,335 --> 00:33:40,745
So Republicans would certainly like to get
into conversations and convince Democrats

417
00:33:41,044 --> 00:33:43,445
to become Republicans at some point.

418
00:33:45,505 --> 00:33:52,905
But as, if I were a Republican, I
would only be asking Democrats, Well,

419
00:33:52,905 --> 00:33:56,045
what are the foundational principles
of why you believe what you believe?

420
00:33:56,534 --> 00:34:00,725
And that's what I would have
the conversation about, not

421
00:34:00,725 --> 00:34:03,485
about their final opinions.

422
00:34:04,625 --> 00:34:10,045
But have you thought true, have you
thought through, what are the implications

423
00:34:10,045 --> 00:34:11,435
of this foundational principle?

424
00:34:11,435 --> 00:34:12,975
If we, if we do this, if we do that.

425
00:34:13,325 --> 00:34:15,045
So what's going to happen
to the food stamps?

426
00:34:15,045 --> 00:34:17,534
What's going to happen to all
of the senior citizens who are

427
00:34:17,535 --> 00:34:18,624
already here and, you know?

428
00:34:18,905 --> 00:34:23,425
At some point, it's possible we can run
out of money and have to do a, you know,

429
00:34:23,905 --> 00:34:25,595
you have to have that conversation.

430
00:34:26,285 --> 00:34:28,735
And what their opinion
is becomes irrelevant,

431
00:34:31,515 --> 00:34:33,145
it doesn't matter what their opinion is.

432
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,800
What matters is why do they believe
what they believe, and that's

433
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,090
the exchange of information.

434
00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:42,350
Yeah, I, I like that a lot.

435
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:52,930
So, so, communication about the right
things first will actually lead into

436
00:34:53,615 --> 00:35:03,485
understanding how to, right, on how to
fix and repair or come to an agreement.

437
00:35:04,825 --> 00:35:06,464
So that's pretty interesting.

438
00:35:08,905 --> 00:35:13,145
Or we could come to an agreement, or
we could come to an agreement that

439
00:35:13,485 --> 00:35:17,195
I, I want to kill you, you want to
kill me, and that's our agreement.

440
00:35:18,005 --> 00:35:21,495
But let's stop wasting time,
let's stop wasting time.

441
00:35:22,935 --> 00:35:23,215
Right.

442
00:35:23,655 --> 00:35:25,525
Exactly, exactly.

443
00:35:26,895 --> 00:35:32,525
Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, I, I like that
a lot because, uh, it's really about being

444
00:35:32,525 --> 00:35:36,435
responsible, and, and that's what it is.

445
00:35:37,865 --> 00:35:39,824
And it's, it's responsible, respectful.

446
00:35:40,835 --> 00:35:44,755
And at some point, I respect you.

447
00:35:45,935 --> 00:35:51,414
Even if you are my enemy, I respect
you as my enemy, quote unquote.

448
00:35:52,945 --> 00:35:57,255
And I'm saying, until you've
declared yourself to be my enemy,

449
00:35:58,375 --> 00:35:59,755
I don't see you as my enemy.

450
00:36:00,125 --> 00:36:01,215
But let's be clear.

451
00:36:01,795 --> 00:36:05,005
So if you are someone who says we
should paint the fire truck yellow, we

452
00:36:05,005 --> 00:36:09,045
should paint the fire truck red, you
know, we can have, you're not my enemy.

453
00:36:10,605 --> 00:36:14,124
But if you say we should let the city
burn to the ground because we don't

454
00:36:14,124 --> 00:36:18,425
want to, you have now, you're completely
on the other side of the equation.

455
00:36:21,065 --> 00:36:21,855
Correct.

456
00:36:22,975 --> 00:36:24,435
That, that outlines that.

457
00:36:24,995 --> 00:36:27,015
Yeah, that's good.

458
00:36:28,385 --> 00:36:30,295
We're clear on that now, let's be clear.

459
00:36:31,815 --> 00:36:40,505
And very often what happens is sometimes
people particularly want to be ambiguous,

460
00:36:42,135 --> 00:36:43,835
because that's part of the strategy,

461
00:36:46,605 --> 00:36:47,925
deception, etc.

462
00:36:50,495 --> 00:36:51,245
That's correct.

463
00:36:51,635 --> 00:36:59,374
So Eric, as I stated earlier in our
conversation, your book is nothing about

464
00:37:01,555 --> 00:37:06,945
what the title and what your
mind suggests it might be.

465
00:37:07,225 --> 00:37:13,770
And it's very interesting that you
can capture a mindset in that way just

466
00:37:14,140 --> 00:37:16,390
because of that shock and awe factor.

467
00:37:17,110 --> 00:37:26,620
Is, is that part of your plan with,
starting with this Muslim, uh, reformers

468
00:37:26,690 --> 00:37:28,860
versus the fundamentalists idea?

469
00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:34,499
Well, uh, not exactly.

470
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,720
If you read, have, have you flipped
through, did I send you the e book?

471
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:45,900
Okay.

472
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:47,300
I should, I should have done that.

473
00:37:47,420 --> 00:37:51,350
Okay, so, the idea of the book is

474
00:37:53,775 --> 00:37:59,835
Islam, and everyone will accept
that Islam is greatly contributing

475
00:37:59,855 --> 00:38:01,485
to Western civilization.

476
00:38:03,435 --> 00:38:04,555
Do you agree on that?

477
00:38:06,225 --> 00:38:11,955
I don't know if I have enough data
to answer that correctly, you know?

478
00:38:14,755 --> 00:38:15,135
Okay.

479
00:38:15,514 --> 00:38:16,574
You actually, you do.

480
00:38:16,634 --> 00:38:16,854
Okay.

481
00:38:16,855 --> 00:38:26,455
So my question to you is just this,
Do you notice that the concept

482
00:38:26,455 --> 00:38:32,705
of the Islamic religion occupies
a large space in our zeitgeist?

483
00:38:34,765 --> 00:38:36,235
Yes, okay.

484
00:38:36,675 --> 00:38:38,655
So that's very good.

485
00:38:39,415 --> 00:38:44,285
So that's, Islam is very much
a presence in our civilization.

486
00:38:45,455 --> 00:38:49,724
It's in the news, it's in the media,
it's on, uh, it's everywhere, okay?

487
00:38:50,915 --> 00:38:58,585
I would actually say that, uh,
in many ways, I, in my thinking,

488
00:38:58,605 --> 00:39:07,425
would suggest that Islam is bigger
in capacity than Christianity.

489
00:39:08,675 --> 00:39:09,285
Yes.

490
00:39:10,715 --> 00:39:14,535
So someone who is on the offensive,

491
00:39:17,245 --> 00:39:21,035
as in chess, or anything you play,
or hockey, or baseball, you know,

492
00:39:21,215 --> 00:39:26,175
if you're on the offense, the other
guy is there ergo on the defense.

493
00:39:28,570 --> 00:39:36,320
If I had to be, if as a chess player, or a
fighter, or I play hockey, I would rather

494
00:39:36,340 --> 00:39:38,290
be on the offense than on the defense.

495
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,990
A football team that's always on the
field with the offense has a better

496
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:47,139
chance of winning than the defense.

497
00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:50,769
Does that make sense?

498
00:39:51,890 --> 00:39:52,270
Yes.

499
00:39:53,850 --> 00:40:04,110
So Islam, as the religion, has a
duty to always be on the offense.

500
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,600
The offense of Islam is to
bring Islam to the world.

501
00:40:14,570 --> 00:40:16,130
That's a religious duty.

502
00:40:18,350 --> 00:40:27,590
The religious duty is self sacrifice
to bring Islam to the world, for

503
00:40:27,590 --> 00:40:32,350
the betterment of mankind, to
wipe out Christianity and Judaism,

504
00:40:33,089 --> 00:40:36,380
along with atheism, uh, et cetera.

505
00:40:36,980 --> 00:40:41,789
Sorry, Christianity and Judaism do not
need to be wiped out, they can be left

506
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:46,019
to survive as a subjugated  religion.

507
00:40:47,245 --> 00:40:48,695
That's the doctrine of Islam.

508
00:40:49,685 --> 00:40:51,985
However, many people misunderstand that.

509
00:40:52,015 --> 00:40:56,255
That Islam wants to dominate
the world for malintent.

510
00:40:58,905 --> 00:41:07,545
So Islam sees itself as bringing rest,
Islam sees itself as bringing justice

511
00:41:07,545 --> 00:41:17,955
and humanity back because, to the world
as dictated by Allah and the Sharia.

512
00:41:20,335 --> 00:41:22,675
So, for example, many people are confused.

513
00:41:23,785 --> 00:41:29,295
There is a book here at the Toronto
Dundas Square, it's a Times Square in

514
00:41:29,295 --> 00:41:35,395
New York, where for the last fifteen
years, today as well, there is a

515
00:41:35,404 --> 00:41:38,415
group called the Toronto Dawah Group.

516
00:41:38,485 --> 00:41:40,095
Do you know what Dawah is?

517
00:41:43,415 --> 00:41:49,135
They were giving out a book called
Women in Islam, or Know Your Human

518
00:41:49,135 --> 00:41:55,605
Rights, in which it specifically lays
out in black and white, in English,

519
00:41:56,255 --> 00:42:02,345
that when a man, and I'm quoting now,
when a man beats his wife, he should not

520
00:42:02,355 --> 00:42:06,264
beat her for vengeance or to hurt her.

521
00:42:07,145 --> 00:42:12,795
Beating women is only for discipline
and to correct their behavior.

522
00:42:14,195 --> 00:42:20,775
So you should not break her bones, you
should not leave black and blue marks.

523
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:25,570
Because Islam forbids severe beatings.

524
00:42:27,830 --> 00:42:36,030
Bukhari, in the hadith, gives you the
number, a man should never, Allah,

525
00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:42,599
look, the Prophet Muhammad said, A man
should never beat his wife and then

526
00:42:42,609 --> 00:42:45,640
have sex with her on the same day.

527
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:54,410
So many people do not understand that, for
many Muslims, this demonstrates compassion

528
00:42:57,225 --> 00:43:00,445
in the fact that the bones
of the wife are not broken.

529
00:43:03,245 --> 00:43:07,895
So when they hear that at first,
they think that this is bad,

530
00:43:08,195 --> 00:43:09,605
that beating women is bad.

531
00:43:09,815 --> 00:43:13,335
And as a Western civilization, we
may come to that conclusion and

532
00:43:13,345 --> 00:43:15,585
jump and say, Whoa, this is bad.

533
00:43:15,595 --> 00:43:17,854
You're not supposed to
beat your wife, correct?

534
00:43:18,724 --> 00:43:21,615
Many people believe that
from the Western perspective.

535
00:43:22,585 --> 00:43:26,925
But from the Islamic perspective,
they see that to not beat your wife,

536
00:43:28,365 --> 00:43:31,005
is to shirk your duties as a husband.

537
00:43:35,295 --> 00:43:38,445
So it all comes down also to
per fundamental principles.

538
00:43:39,795 --> 00:43:44,145
So if I were to say to someone, You are
a bad person because you beat your wife.

539
00:43:44,825 --> 00:43:47,225
And he looks at me and says, Well,
you're a bad person because you don't

540
00:43:47,225 --> 00:43:49,055
beat your, you don't beat your wife.

541
00:43:50,665 --> 00:43:53,065
Because by not beating your
wife, you're not controlling her.

542
00:43:54,245 --> 00:43:59,935
And in the Islamic, in the Islamic
paradigm, the man must control his wife.

543
00:44:00,965 --> 00:44:04,195
He cannot let her leave the
house without his permission,

544
00:44:04,885 --> 00:44:06,115
without being fully covered.

545
00:44:09,215 --> 00:44:13,565
Whereas Western men, or Western
civilization, allows women to

546
00:44:13,565 --> 00:44:15,235
just come and go as they please.

547
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:22,370
So fundamental principles are, are,
you're starting at two different places.

548
00:44:24,170 --> 00:44:30,000
So, the book, Muslim Reformers and
Fundamentalists, basically outlines

549
00:44:30,439 --> 00:44:39,910
how, what we in the West expect
as the foundational elements of

550
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:47,205
what a civilization is, does not
correspond in any way with what the

551
00:44:47,225 --> 00:44:54,245
Islamic doctrine says foundational
elements of civilization are.

552
00:44:57,855 --> 00:45:04,994
In the book, however, you have the
Muslim reformers who do say, My

553
00:45:05,005 --> 00:45:13,145
Islam, or the Islam that I prefer, is
compatible with Western civilization.

554
00:45:15,615 --> 00:45:22,185
However, the other voice, which is
the imams and mosques that represent

555
00:45:22,185 --> 00:45:27,875
ninety-five percent of all the
mosques in Canada, America, Sweden,

556
00:45:27,885 --> 00:45:32,094
Germany, Belgium, Austria, say no.

557
00:45:33,555 --> 00:45:38,915
The reformers are nutcases,
and they represent one percent

558
00:45:38,925 --> 00:45:40,315
of the Muslim population.

559
00:45:42,465 --> 00:45:44,274
Which means they don't
have a lot of seniority,

560
00:45:46,595 --> 00:45:47,935
they don't have any sway.

561
00:45:49,705 --> 00:45:56,224
But many people, like nice
people, non Muslims, like the

562
00:45:56,394 --> 00:45:58,955
concept of the reformed Islam.

563
00:46:00,435 --> 00:46:02,265
And they prefer to ignore,

564
00:46:04,805 --> 00:46:09,715
they like that Islam, but they,
they, they prefer to ignore the Islam

565
00:46:09,845 --> 00:46:13,055
that's actually in the doctrine.

566
00:46:13,545 --> 00:46:16,905
That's preached from
the Sunnis every Friday.

567
00:46:19,085 --> 00:46:25,630
So, what comes clear in the
book is there's elements of what

568
00:46:25,630 --> 00:46:29,410
we would call not nice Islam.

569
00:46:31,220 --> 00:46:37,010
The, you know, the total blackness, music
is haram, music is the call of Satan,

570
00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:39,999
uh, Western civilization is a cesspool.

571
00:46:42,949 --> 00:46:51,609
That Islam is, or seems
to be, mainstream Islam.

572
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,285
That is the Islam of ninety percent of
the mosques or of the belief system.

573
00:46:59,765 --> 00:47:05,645
So my book that I'm working on right
now deals with, to some extent,

574
00:47:10,755 --> 00:47:16,834
the highest, to a large extent, the
highest achievement that a Muslim

575
00:47:16,844 --> 00:47:25,295
man can do for the religion of
Islam, of Allah, is to die in self

576
00:47:25,295 --> 00:47:28,805
sacrifice, in one way or another.

577
00:47:31,075 --> 00:47:32,365
That's what we would call a shaheed.

578
00:47:35,635 --> 00:47:38,279
A shaheed, shaheed.

579
00:47:39,940 --> 00:47:48,270
Shaheed, shahada, for , shaheed for
male, shahada for females, um, a martyr.

580
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:56,719
Now what's, what many people don't,
a martyr, a martyr in Islam, the

581
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:02,369
males anyhow, because Islam for
a large percentage is written

582
00:48:02,370 --> 00:48:04,190
from the perspective of the male.

583
00:48:05,710 --> 00:48:12,260
A martyr in Islam, and this is not
fringe doctrine, this is mainstream

584
00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:19,145
doctrine, very well established, will
have seventy-two houries, H O U R I E

585
00:48:19,185 --> 00:48:26,125
S, houries, which is black eyed girls,
seventy-two, virgins, in paradise.

586
00:48:28,135 --> 00:48:35,004
There's also doctrine that says that
virgins in paradise are perpetual.

587
00:48:37,854 --> 00:48:43,605
Their hymens repair on a daily
basis, so they're perpetual virgins.

588
00:48:44,775 --> 00:48:49,955
But most important to the family is
that someone who gains the highest

589
00:48:49,955 --> 00:48:56,500
level of paradise in this manner
can intercede for seventy of his

590
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:59,260
relatives on the day of judgment.

591
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,500
So say you're my brother and you're
a bad guy and you're not going to

592
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:05,940
paradise 'cause you're a bad guy.

593
00:49:06,555 --> 00:49:09,385
Well, because I'm a good guy
who went to the highest level in

594
00:49:09,385 --> 00:49:13,835
paradise, I could say to Allah,
Hey, whoa, Allah, that's my brother.

595
00:49:14,665 --> 00:49:15,575
Bring him on in.

596
00:49:16,855 --> 00:49:19,335
I can do that for seventy of my relatives.

597
00:49:20,945 --> 00:49:27,375
That's why a lot of people, when their
children become martyrs, they're happy.

598
00:49:29,585 --> 00:49:32,975
But you see, but, but, so my, what
I'm getting at here is this little

599
00:49:32,975 --> 00:49:39,645
example shows you how fundamental
principles, underlying principles of

600
00:49:39,645 --> 00:49:45,805
what we think it is to be alive, and
what we think is the, what we view as

601
00:49:45,854 --> 00:49:51,955
life, is completely different from the
Islamic perspective of what is life.

602
00:49:57,575 --> 00:50:01,955
So I'm not going to argue like
I did ten years ago about,

603
00:50:04,045 --> 00:50:07,095
unless you understand the
underlying principles, there's

604
00:50:07,095 --> 00:50:08,724
no conversation to be had.

605
00:50:12,405 --> 00:50:14,065
So are Muslims wrong?

606
00:50:18,084 --> 00:50:20,424
That's a very interesting question.

607
00:50:20,434 --> 00:50:22,864
Uh, are they wrong?

608
00:50:25,555 --> 00:50:28,395
No, it's their belief.

609
00:50:28,735 --> 00:50:30,825
You know, that's what they were raised in.

610
00:50:31,785 --> 00:50:38,090
So it's very interesting because
Christians, same way, you know, we're

611
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:42,330
steeped in it from birth to adulthood.

612
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:50,960
And those, those ideas, you know,
they're fundamental to who we are usually

613
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,440
because that's what we were raised in.

614
00:50:53,660 --> 00:50:58,669
It doesn't matter what culture, and,
and that brings up another thing

615
00:50:58,669 --> 00:51:05,900
about your border idea, you know,
that's why we have borders, the locked

616
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,490
doors, those are different families.

617
00:51:09,490 --> 00:51:17,679
They have different cultures, they
have different ideas and that's okay.

618
00:51:20,510 --> 00:51:24,170
Well, you, you, you prefer to
live in a village where people

619
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,590
think and act the same way you do.

620
00:51:31,380 --> 00:51:34,080
And in those villages, you
might not lock your door.

621
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:39,060
Whereas in, whereas in downtown
Manhattan, you probably lock your door.

622
00:51:41,740 --> 00:51:42,620
That's a good point.

623
00:51:43,420 --> 00:51:50,830
You know, because generally out where
I live, people don't lock their doors.

624
00:51:50,850 --> 00:51:56,020
There's locks on the doors,
but you know, we know who's

625
00:51:56,020 --> 00:51:59,060
around and we know who to watch.

626
00:51:59,395 --> 00:52:06,045
And that's, I believe in every culture,
or it used to be, I would assume.

627
00:52:06,405 --> 00:52:10,125
And, and that's how
people survive, isn't it?

628
00:52:10,404 --> 00:52:11,685
By paying attention.

629
00:52:13,124 --> 00:52:16,865
What you're talking about, and
what we've stumbled into, is

630
00:52:16,865 --> 00:52:19,894
called high trust societies.

631
00:52:21,815 --> 00:52:23,214
Here in Canada,

632
00:52:26,104 --> 00:52:30,814
we used to not have a picture
on our driver's license.

633
00:52:33,365 --> 00:52:36,805
On our Medicare card, we
did not have a picture.

634
00:52:38,595 --> 00:52:46,255
The picture was eventually put on the,
your identification because people

635
00:52:46,255 --> 00:52:48,905
started using false identification.

636
00:52:52,595 --> 00:52:57,705
So the government's so, but fifty,
sixty, seventy, eighty years ago,

637
00:52:58,595 --> 00:53:02,245
people did not think of using
false identification so much.

638
00:53:02,285 --> 00:53:07,565
It wasn't rampant in culture, because for
the most part, people were just honest.

639
00:53:09,045 --> 00:53:11,635
It was seen as bad to be dishonest.

640
00:53:13,775 --> 00:53:22,175
But there are other cultures where to
be dishonest is seen, or to be honest

641
00:53:22,175 --> 00:53:24,505
is to be seen as being a weakling sap.

642
00:53:25,764 --> 00:53:33,060
And the culture is to cheat whichever
way you can to get any one inch

643
00:53:33,060 --> 00:53:37,760
advantage over the other guy,
because it really is dog eat dog.

644
00:53:39,970 --> 00:53:43,890
That's a different culture, it's
a different group of people.

645
00:53:45,489 --> 00:53:50,140
But if we come back to, and it wasn't
so long ago when here in Canada,

646
00:53:51,065 --> 00:53:55,185
If you went to small villages, St.
Jerome, St. Agathe, outside of Quebec

647
00:53:55,185 --> 00:54:03,665
City, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day,
everyone was celebrating Christmas, or

648
00:54:03,665 --> 00:54:05,975
everyone was into the Christmas spirit.

649
00:54:06,395 --> 00:54:09,574
Nobody was arguing, everyone
was happy, everyone was saying

650
00:54:09,585 --> 00:54:10,964
Merry Christmas to everybody.

651
00:54:11,315 --> 00:54:16,634
It was, there was an atmosphere
in the air, even in Montreal.

652
00:54:18,494 --> 00:54:20,014
That's no longer the case,

653
00:54:21,665 --> 00:54:23,615
it's extremely not the case.

654
00:54:24,205 --> 00:54:29,875
There's no longer an atmosphere of
community because to have an atmosphere of

655
00:54:29,915 --> 00:54:33,895
community, you need to have a community.

656
00:54:35,425 --> 00:54:41,215
I stress the word, a community,
not just a group of individual

657
00:54:41,225 --> 00:54:42,705
multitudes of communities.

658
00:54:44,570 --> 00:54:48,700
Because then you just get a whole
bunch of individual communities vying

659
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:54,389
for, so, because at some point one
community or one group or one ideology

660
00:54:54,390 --> 00:54:57,019
will ultimately become dominant.

661
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:03,939
Because every idea and every ideology
kind of believes it's the better

662
00:55:03,939 --> 00:55:05,680
idea, that's why it's an idea.

663
00:55:08,420 --> 00:55:14,390
So why would it not want to impose
itself, in one way or another, nicely,

664
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:16,400
not nicely, over the other ideas?

665
00:55:19,650 --> 00:55:26,169
I really believe, Eric, that that has
been the case since the beginning of time.

666
00:55:27,210 --> 00:55:36,090
The same mentality, especially, you
know, if you don't assimilate cultures

667
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:41,120
properly, and I don't know if there is
a proper way to assimilate cultures,

668
00:55:41,690 --> 00:55:47,255
but usually what happens when we
assimilate cultures is, the dominant

669
00:55:47,295 --> 00:55:51,915
culture gobbles up the weaker culture.

670
00:55:53,095 --> 00:55:55,685
That's always been historically true.

671
00:55:55,825 --> 00:55:58,505
Is there a way we can
change something like that?

672
00:56:00,494 --> 00:56:04,585
Um, can we change that?

673
00:56:04,705 --> 00:56:10,796
Well, this, do, before we could
change anything fundamentally, the

674
00:56:10,796 --> 00:56:13,974
fundamental question then becomes, do

675
00:56:16,575 --> 00:56:21,245
enough people, or does anyone other
than maybe yourself, believe it's

676
00:56:21,245 --> 00:56:23,025
a question that needs to be asked?

677
00:56:26,055 --> 00:56:30,825
Like, so is the mainstream media,
is the CNN, who's, who's, would CNN,

678
00:56:30,834 --> 00:56:36,055
would, would Fox News maybe, even ask
this question that you just asked?

679
00:56:36,965 --> 00:56:39,710
Just the question itself, it's verboten.

680
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,340
So how can you fix a problem
unless you even discuss whether

681
00:56:43,340 --> 00:56:44,730
or not it could be a problem?

682
00:56:48,420 --> 00:56:49,370
Is it a problem

683
00:56:52,650 --> 00:56:53,710
that needs to be fixed?

684
00:56:53,710 --> 00:56:57,450
So how can you fix a problem before
you actually defined it as a problem?

685
00:56:58,659 --> 00:56:59,989
And that, and therein lies,

686
00:57:02,990 --> 00:57:04,150
Well, I guess.

687
00:57:04,219 --> 00:57:04,609
Yeah.

688
00:57:04,669 --> 00:57:10,700
Yeah, I guess we have to go granular
there again with, you know, defining

689
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:16,840
what a problem is and, you know,
if it, yeah, is it a problem?

690
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:17,890
So

691
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,840
I guess that's kind of, you
know, in our mindset, isn't it?

692
00:57:24,850 --> 00:57:28,410
That's kind of in our mindset
to fix things, isn't it?

693
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:33,130
Well, okay.

694
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:46,980
So this brings us back to if we had a
emperor or a king who could say, or if

695
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:52,340
I was made king, right, or the emperor,
then I could say from now on for the

696
00:57:52,340 --> 00:57:56,160
next five years, we're going to fix all
the problems that I think are problems.

697
00:57:57,615 --> 00:57:59,295
And we're going to do it my way.

698
00:58:01,495 --> 00:58:08,475
Now that could work out to the way
you think it should, it could, or at

699
00:58:08,475 --> 00:58:11,685
least eighty percent of what I end up
doing could be what you agree with.

700
00:58:14,115 --> 00:58:19,664
But to do anything, the eighty percent
of what you think would be good to

701
00:58:19,675 --> 00:58:25,440
be done, you can't have committees
having conversations about, you know,

702
00:58:25,860 --> 00:58:27,360
the right color of the firetruck.

703
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:30,570
That could take like six months
to discover what color we want

704
00:58:30,570 --> 00:58:32,990
the firetruck to be, let alone
make the order for the firetruck.

705
00:58:34,340 --> 00:58:36,800
But a king could say, Look, I
want the firetruck to be red.

706
00:58:36,820 --> 00:58:39,369
End of story, no more
conversation, buy the firetrucks.

707
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,300
That's how civilizations used to
function, we had a king, an emperor.

708
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:54,330
Was it, and as time has, goes
by, I'm not certain that the

709
00:58:54,330 --> 00:58:56,220
present system is much better.

710
00:58:58,510 --> 00:58:59,749
I mean, we, we have injustice.

711
00:59:01,170 --> 00:59:04,500
We have injustice, we have poverty,
we have people who are falsely

712
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:07,550
accused, we have people who have
been falsely killed in prison, we,

713
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:13,080
we, you know, so was it better under
King, under King Edward the third?

714
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:15,339
It could have been better
or not, I don't know.

715
00:59:16,620 --> 00:59:22,460
So we did all of this revolution to have
a new system, and now we're, have, you

716
00:59:22,460 --> 00:59:24,400
know, people homeless in the streets.

717
00:59:27,540 --> 00:59:29,000
Look at what's going on in California.

718
00:59:30,460 --> 00:59:34,240
Now, would a king or an emperor
ever accept what's going on

719
00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:35,580
in the streets of California?

720
00:59:36,539 --> 00:59:39,439
Even a bad king would not accept
that, it would never happen.

721
00:59:42,589 --> 00:59:45,060
Or at least he could fix it in some way.

722
00:59:46,330 --> 00:59:50,309
I'm not sure, but the point is,
is California has spent sixty-five

723
00:59:50,330 --> 00:59:54,150
billion dollars on the homeless
and the drug people in California.

724
00:59:55,110 --> 00:59:58,600
And it's, it's worse than
ever, that's the joke.

725
00:59:59,820 --> 01:00:03,090
But a king could come in and say, We're
going to do this, this, this, and this.

726
01:00:03,450 --> 01:00:04,770
I don't want to spend any money.

727
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,140
We're going to do some bad, cause
maybe you're going to do some bad

728
01:00:09,210 --> 01:00:10,940
evil things to fix this problem.

729
01:00:13,550 --> 01:00:17,800
But I'm not sure that doing what we would
call bad evil things to fix the problem

730
01:00:17,980 --> 01:00:20,120
is any more bad than what's going on now.

731
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:27,470
We just want to delay doing the inevitable
bad things in order to have ourselves,

732
01:00:27,470 --> 01:00:29,270
to be able to say we are good people.

733
01:00:30,500 --> 01:00:35,080
Because we're good people,
we don't want to judge.

734
01:00:36,269 --> 01:00:39,179
You know, the methamphetamine
people standing on the corner

735
01:00:39,179 --> 01:00:41,500
of the street who are going to
be dead in three months anyway.

736
01:00:44,259 --> 01:00:47,390
Or maybe they actually kind of are
dead, they're the walking dead.

737
01:00:48,635 --> 01:00:51,315
You could, somebody could make that case.

738
01:00:53,585 --> 01:00:55,115
Yeah, it's very interesting.

739
01:00:55,115 --> 01:01:00,274
You know, this, this whole conversation
that we've had really sheds light

740
01:01:00,365 --> 01:01:08,385
on, you know, conversation and how
we have conversations really matters.

741
01:01:08,445 --> 01:01:10,865
It, it takes thought.

742
01:01:11,595 --> 01:01:16,945
And, and this is really, truly
what I've been working on is having

743
01:01:16,945 --> 01:01:19,705
conversations exactly like this.

744
01:01:19,725 --> 01:01:23,235
That it challenges what
you think you already know.

745
01:01:24,324 --> 01:01:31,444
And this, I believe, in my head,
will make a better person come

746
01:01:31,445 --> 01:01:35,385
out of the confusion and chaos.

747
01:01:36,115 --> 01:01:42,505
As long as we can stumble through
what we're doing right here today,

748
01:01:42,535 --> 01:01:48,534
and get to know each other and
our thoughts a little bit better.

749
01:01:51,604 --> 01:01:54,135
Yeah, that's a nice way to put it.

750
01:01:56,065 --> 01:02:01,710
But I come back to, ultimately,
when I have this conversation with

751
01:02:01,710 --> 01:02:10,340
you, my, I'm not, my overlying
objective, or my underpinning

752
01:02:10,350 --> 01:02:13,860
objective, is not to make friends.

753
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:20,170
I, we could become friends, but
I'm not here to become your friend.

754
01:02:23,989 --> 01:02:34,440
My primary objective, ultimately,
is for you to think what I think.

755
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,820
Because I think, what I think is,
because I've been thinking about

756
01:02:38,820 --> 01:02:41,050
it for a long time, for fifteen,
twenty years, writing about it.

757
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:47,150
On certain subjects, I think I know the
right way to think about those subjects.

758
01:02:49,330 --> 01:02:53,440
Ultimately, how do I accomplish that?

759
01:02:54,539 --> 01:02:58,749
So, we come back to, if you're a
Republican who wants to talk to a

760
01:02:58,749 --> 01:03:03,260
Democrat, ultimately, you would prefer
for the Democrat to become a Republican,

761
01:03:05,350 --> 01:03:05,800
correct?

762
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:07,820
How do you do that?

763
01:03:08,900 --> 01:03:10,310
So how do we do that?

764
01:03:11,970 --> 01:03:14,580
That's the how.

765
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:20,079
So I can guarantee you most
Republicans have given up on anyone

766
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:23,099
that's called, so if I scream
and yell at you, I've given up.

767
01:03:24,110 --> 01:03:26,420
All I want to do is show you
how smart I am and how stupid

768
01:03:26,420 --> 01:03:28,810
you are and, but I've given up.

769
01:03:29,980 --> 01:03:34,520
If I haven't given up, then I'm
going to, I'm going to stop myself,

770
01:03:35,420 --> 01:03:40,390
take a step backwards and say, Okay,
do I take this person seriously?

771
01:03:40,970 --> 01:03:48,860
Is it worth my time and effort to
engage with this person in this manner?

772
01:03:49,370 --> 01:03:50,580
And it's going to take time.

773
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:54,490
Half an hour, one hour, a little
bit today, maybe tomorrow,

774
01:03:54,620 --> 01:03:56,140
it's a, it's a process.

775
01:03:57,990 --> 01:04:01,230
However, and I'm going to leave this with
you, and this one, you'll understand,

776
01:04:01,230 --> 01:04:06,580
it's very simple, most people try to
change someone's mind in one conversation.

777
01:04:09,490 --> 01:04:13,680
I talk to you now, I want to show you
you're wrong, I want you to, to realize

778
01:04:13,690 --> 01:04:18,860
that I'm right, I'm right, you're wrong,
and I want you to realize that now.

779
01:04:23,259 --> 01:04:25,509
What I have discovered,

780
01:04:27,530 --> 01:04:32,460
all I can do is plant seeds of doubt.

781
01:04:34,219 --> 01:04:34,759
That's it.

782
01:04:37,239 --> 01:04:43,960
And tomorrow, perhaps, another seed
of doubt will come into your mind.

783
01:04:44,740 --> 01:04:46,850
But once I've planted
that seed of doubt, stop,

784
01:04:50,790 --> 01:04:55,465
walk away, let that seed
germinate in your mind.

785
01:04:56,455 --> 01:04:59,105
Now you have the problem because
that seed is in your mind.

786
01:05:00,535 --> 01:05:03,895
But of course if we have true
conversation, it's possible that you'll

787
01:05:03,895 --> 01:05:05,675
plant the seed of doubt into my mind.

788
01:05:07,104 --> 01:05:09,935
Possible, I'm open to that.

789
01:05:10,145 --> 01:05:14,555
So I've had conversations with people
where I've actually said in the

790
01:05:14,555 --> 01:05:21,215
conversation, You know, I admit and I'm
willing to accept that it's possible

791
01:05:21,895 --> 01:05:24,975
that you are right and that I am wrong.

792
01:05:25,785 --> 01:05:26,935
Do you accept that?

793
01:05:28,755 --> 01:05:31,395
And, of course, the person
accepts the possibility that

794
01:05:31,405 --> 01:05:32,575
they're right and I'm wrong.

795
01:05:33,965 --> 01:05:37,585
You understand the joke,
of course they accept that.

796
01:05:38,195 --> 01:05:40,435
So then I, then what's the next question?

797
01:05:41,075 --> 01:05:42,015
What's the next question?

798
01:05:44,635 --> 01:05:45,184
Think about it.

799
01:05:47,614 --> 01:05:48,965
Do you accept the same?

800
01:05:51,725 --> 01:05:54,984
Do you accept that it's possible you
could be right and I could, that you

801
01:05:54,985 --> 01:05:56,105
could be wrong and I could be right?

802
01:05:56,105 --> 01:05:56,954
Is that possible?

803
01:05:59,745 --> 01:06:03,415
Okay, so if I'm having a conversation
with someone and I ask them that

804
01:06:03,415 --> 01:06:06,835
question, Is it possible that you
could be right and I could be wrong?

805
01:06:06,835 --> 01:06:10,835
And they accept that, but
they won't accept the inverse,

806
01:06:11,785 --> 01:06:13,025
don't have the conversation.

807
01:06:13,705 --> 01:06:14,495
Makes no sense.

808
01:06:14,615 --> 01:06:15,495
Thank you very much.

809
01:06:16,925 --> 01:06:20,715
And I really, I've literally
said, I understand we can't have

810
01:06:20,715 --> 01:06:22,505
a conversation and I just don't.

811
01:06:23,475 --> 01:06:24,075
Walk away.

812
01:06:31,525 --> 01:06:33,055
Why spend your time and energy?

813
01:06:34,995 --> 01:06:38,005
I only will, I will only have
a conversation with someone who

814
01:06:38,015 --> 01:06:39,715
leaves open the possibility.

815
01:06:39,855 --> 01:06:41,995
I'm not even saying you are, I am right.

816
01:06:42,225 --> 01:06:43,305
Is it possible?

817
01:06:45,455 --> 01:06:47,405
If they say no, then fine, gone.

818
01:06:48,305 --> 01:06:52,225
Again, you have to establish
underlying  foundational principles.

819
01:06:52,225 --> 01:06:56,304
And if you have not established those,
you're, you're spinning around in mud.

820
01:06:58,810 --> 01:07:02,880
And the more you step on the gas, the
more quicker the wheel spins in the mud.

821
01:07:03,610 --> 01:07:04,940
And you do nothing, right?

822
01:07:06,650 --> 01:07:10,450
It's insanity to just keep stepping
on the gas and spinning the wheels,

823
01:07:11,369 --> 01:07:12,970
and that's what we do a lot of.

824
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,050
So if you're spinning your wheels, best
thing to do is shut off the engine,

825
01:07:19,060 --> 01:07:22,750
get out, get a shovel, start digging
this, around the mud, put some, you

826
01:07:22,750 --> 01:07:24,120
know, you got to do the real work.

827
01:07:25,230 --> 01:07:30,120
But just screaming and yelling, which is
basically stepping on the gas, nothing.

828
01:07:31,260 --> 01:07:37,900
Except animosity, hatred, anger, more
division, and less respect, because

829
01:07:37,900 --> 01:07:39,470
then you start calling each other names.

830
01:07:41,230 --> 01:07:50,420
And that brings us back to Islam, to that
subject, which I, when people say what

831
01:07:50,420 --> 01:07:52,959
they say on anything to do with Islam,

832
01:07:55,719 --> 01:07:58,640
is it nine times out of ten or
nineteen times out of twenty?

833
01:07:58,940 --> 01:08:00,800
They have no idea what
they're talking about.

834
01:08:01,740 --> 01:08:05,450
They only say what they say
because it's the thing to be said.

835
01:08:07,590 --> 01:08:07,850
Yeah.

836
01:08:08,690 --> 01:08:10,550
Opinionated news, again.

837
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:13,510
So yeah.

838
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:14,250
It's,

839
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:17,510
Yeah.

840
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:20,349
I'll send you my e book,
I'll send you the e book.

841
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:27,029
Yeah, I will actually probably
order your book to read what

842
01:08:27,029 --> 01:08:28,460
you have to say in there.

843
01:08:29,150 --> 01:08:32,640
Because that's what we do,
we read books and we learn.

844
01:08:33,190 --> 01:08:39,620
And if your mind isn't open to other
perspectives, you've already lost

845
01:08:40,410 --> 01:08:42,860
and I believe that a hundred percent.

846
01:08:43,550 --> 01:08:51,189
Because what I believe is just what
I believe and I cannot quantify that

847
01:08:51,189 --> 01:08:59,685
at all if I can't take other things
in and still believe the same thing.

848
01:09:03,475 --> 01:09:08,315
Well, you see, I hate to do this to
you, because you're a nice guy and I

849
01:09:08,315 --> 01:09:12,995
like you, but you just made another
statement that's a little bit, no, of

850
01:09:12,995 --> 01:09:14,985
course, but it's just a little bit off.

851
01:09:15,455 --> 01:09:18,475
You made a, you made a very
important statement that's a bit off.

852
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:26,050
You said, um, I am, something
about perspectives, I'm prepared

853
01:09:26,050 --> 01:09:29,050
to change my perspective, or
something of that nature, right?

854
01:09:29,770 --> 01:09:30,809
You said something like that.

855
01:09:33,209 --> 01:09:33,579
Yeah.

856
01:09:33,610 --> 01:09:40,000
Well, I'm, I'm open, I'm always
open to change my perspective if

857
01:09:40,020 --> 01:09:44,670
you can persuade me that I am wrong.

858
01:09:45,170 --> 01:09:49,240
And, you know, I have a foundation.

859
01:09:51,929 --> 01:09:53,129
Well, but think about this.

860
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:54,780
You know, I understand you.

861
01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:59,880
And I'm being kind of picky because
we're, well, that's our conversation

862
01:09:59,890 --> 01:10:01,640
about being, about conversations, right?

863
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:08,300
I, I'm not sure I'm ready to entertain
the perspective of a pedophile.

864
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:11,850
I won't entertain that perspective.

865
01:10:13,670 --> 01:10:15,030
So what you just said,

866
01:10:17,170 --> 01:10:19,890
on some level, is like saying
all cultures are equal.

867
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:21,160
Well, I don't know.

868
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,460
I am not sure I'm prepared to accept that
statement that all cultures are equal.

869
01:10:25,540 --> 01:10:29,120
We could say all cultures
are cultures, okay?

870
01:10:29,700 --> 01:10:33,230
All cultures are equally cultures
because they're cultures, okay?

871
01:10:33,910 --> 01:10:37,339
But what does that mean when
we say all cultures are equal?

872
01:10:37,410 --> 01:10:40,740
Well, I'm not sure the Tahiti
culture that threw virgins into the

873
01:10:40,740 --> 01:10:47,180
volcano to appease the volcano god
is equal to the Christian culture.

874
01:10:48,855 --> 01:10:51,715
It could be if we want to have
that conversation, but that's

875
01:10:51,715 --> 01:10:53,224
quite a sweeping statement.

876
01:10:55,505 --> 01:10:59,664
How do, how would, how would
we even measure that, Eric?

877
01:10:59,705 --> 01:11:06,074
I mean, you know, when, when we get deep
into that, how can, because that lies

878
01:11:06,095 --> 01:11:08,635
back onto our own perspective again.

879
01:11:09,395 --> 01:11:09,575
So,

880
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:14,960
But, but correct.

881
01:11:14,970 --> 01:11:18,410
And that, and I'm glad you, we're
somewhere now where it's a little bit

882
01:11:18,410 --> 01:11:22,779
more difficult to have this conversation,
and so that's, so, here we come.

883
01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:31,809
I once asked a man in a Canadian
legion, and I've asked this question

884
01:11:31,810 --> 01:11:37,545
several times, If you were standing
on a bridge and underneath you

885
01:11:37,545 --> 01:11:43,475
there was a raging flood, raging,
two girls are being swept away

886
01:11:45,605 --> 01:11:52,835
they're both twelve years old, one of
these girls is your granddaughter, the

887
01:11:52,835 --> 01:11:59,214
other girl is a girl, maybe it's your
granddaughter's friend, she's a nice girl,

888
01:12:00,465 --> 01:12:06,215
but the genie that came down from the sky
gave you the opportunity to save one of

889
01:12:06,225 --> 01:12:10,515
those girls, which girl would you save?

890
01:12:12,540 --> 01:12:15,730
Many people don't like
to answer that question.

891
01:12:17,140 --> 01:12:19,800
It's obvious, the, the granddaughter.

892
01:12:22,970 --> 01:12:25,859
But it's not, but many
people don't answer that.

893
01:12:28,130 --> 01:12:32,170
They answer, Well, equity,
depends, blah, blah, blah, who's

894
01:12:32,170 --> 01:12:35,770
going to, you know, but, look.

895
01:12:35,829 --> 01:12:38,040
So, at some point we are human.

896
01:12:41,150 --> 01:12:47,820
Well, but people are so, we, people
are so conditioned to respond in a

897
01:12:47,820 --> 01:12:51,820
certain way because of media, right?

898
01:12:55,060 --> 01:13:01,770
At some point, there are some issues
that just come down to what I prefer.

899
01:13:03,990 --> 01:13:12,970
And if you prefer, if you prefer,
example, that there are cultures where

900
01:13:12,980 --> 01:13:19,780
they do cut off the little skin on
little girls who are twelve years old.

901
01:13:20,190 --> 01:13:21,440
Do you know what I'm talking about?

902
01:13:21,700 --> 01:13:22,070
Okay.

903
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:28,639
I'm not prepared to
accept that as acceptable.

904
01:13:29,970 --> 01:13:32,070
To me, that's not acceptable.

905
01:13:32,079 --> 01:13:32,379
Done.

906
01:13:32,749 --> 01:13:33,840
It's horrible.

907
01:13:35,210 --> 01:13:40,279
But there are many people in Canada
who I've had that conversation with

908
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:42,959
that have said, Well, it depends.

909
01:13:46,105 --> 01:13:46,985
And I'm like, Huh?

910
01:13:47,565 --> 01:13:47,965
Really?

911
01:13:48,065 --> 01:13:50,685
Like, and more than you would think.

912
01:13:51,405 --> 01:13:52,905
Well, it depends.

913
01:13:55,225 --> 01:14:02,344
At some point, don't we, as men, as
people, as a civilization, have to

914
01:14:02,344 --> 01:14:03,974
just say, I prefer what I prefer.

915
01:14:04,214 --> 01:14:07,004
No, I don't want to argue
with you why we should not cut

916
01:14:07,004 --> 01:14:09,154
off the skin of little girls.

917
01:14:10,104 --> 01:14:11,645
I just shoot you in the head.

918
01:14:12,265 --> 01:14:12,715
Done.

919
01:14:13,015 --> 01:14:15,695
If you're one of those people who
does it, okay, boom, shot in the head.

920
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:17,400
Am I right?

921
01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:18,110
Am I wrong?

922
01:14:18,730 --> 01:14:25,170
I've also asked the question, If you were
walking in the park, in Central Park,

923
01:14:25,530 --> 01:14:32,229
somewhere, and in the bushes there was a
girl who was being punched and, you know,

924
01:14:33,309 --> 01:14:36,100
having her clothes ripped off by two guys.

925
01:14:40,810 --> 01:14:44,199
And they were busy doing
what they were busy.

926
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:50,730
And you could walk up behind them
and hit them in the head with a rock.

927
01:14:51,390 --> 01:14:55,050
But because there's two of them, you
have to make sure that when you hit the

928
01:14:55,050 --> 01:14:58,669
first guy with the rock, you do it hard
enough that he's not going to get back up.

929
01:14:59,259 --> 01:15:01,700
Because there's two of them,
because now they can attack you.

930
01:15:02,450 --> 01:15:04,530
And then very quickly you
have to hit the second guy.

931
01:15:06,779 --> 01:15:10,240
And in doing this, you might kill them

932
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,430
or you could not do anything
and just let the girl be raped.

933
01:15:20,550 --> 01:15:22,120
I know which one I would do.

934
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:26,510
Now, is it right or is it wrong?

935
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:30,250
I've had people tell me, Well,
you could injure them very badly.

936
01:15:31,370 --> 01:15:33,249
You might kill them,
you could cripple them.

937
01:15:35,109 --> 01:15:38,120
However, I only think about the girl.

938
01:15:39,620 --> 01:15:40,520
That's my concern.

939
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,370
So am I a wrong person?

940
01:15:46,170 --> 01:15:47,920
Am I doing a wrong thing?

941
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:52,860
Okay, you could say
that I'm wrong to do it.

942
01:15:52,900 --> 01:15:54,680
However, I will still do it.

943
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:59,030
And if I'm judged wrong,
okay, judge me wrong.

944
01:16:00,730 --> 01:16:04,980
If by accident the police come and
I go to jail, I guess I'll be sad

945
01:16:04,990 --> 01:16:09,690
when I'm in jail, but I don't know
that I would do anything different.

946
01:16:09,739 --> 01:16:12,990
I would say the people who threw me
into jail for doing this, they're wrong.

947
01:16:16,070 --> 01:16:17,070
You see where I'm going?

948
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:25,280
Sometimes we have to be wrong or we have
to accept that other people say we're

949
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:26,960
wrong for what it is that we believe.

950
01:16:27,770 --> 01:16:28,410
Sometimes.

951
01:16:30,215 --> 01:16:33,765
This is very complicated, but my point
is that's why screaming and yelling

952
01:16:33,765 --> 01:16:35,365
and platitudes are much simpler.

953
01:16:36,225 --> 01:16:42,415
So Eric, this has definitely been an
outstanding conversation, because it's

954
01:16:42,415 --> 01:16:45,125
challenging what you think, what you know.

955
01:16:45,394 --> 01:16:50,194
And this is what we love the best
here at the Dead America Podcast.

956
01:16:51,375 --> 01:16:54,585
I really want to say thank you for that.

957
01:16:56,085 --> 01:17:02,310
Before we end our conversation,
would you please share how people

958
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:09,350
can find your book, get in contact
with you, and also do you have a call

959
01:17:09,390 --> 01:17:11,820
to action for our listeners today?

960
01:17:16,339 --> 01:17:21,340
Call of action would be simply, not
that I'm trying to sell the book,

961
01:17:21,770 --> 01:17:25,470
because I don't make that much money
off of each book, if you were to read

962
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:30,740
the book, you would understand the
concept of how to have the conversation.

963
01:17:32,350 --> 01:17:38,330
It's all about, call of action is,
if you want to change someone's mind,

964
01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:43,210
and I'm assuming many people do,
have the conversation about what,

965
01:17:43,489 --> 01:17:45,000
why they believe what they believe.

966
01:17:46,230 --> 01:17:46,670
Simple.

967
01:17:47,980 --> 01:17:51,500
Call to action, get the
book, Muslim Reformers vs.

968
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:55,130
Fundamentalists, I spent a lot of
time and effort to write this book.

969
01:17:55,130 --> 01:17:59,980
And I think it's a very well
written book, and you will learn.

970
01:18:01,610 --> 01:18:07,079
And you cannot, nothing can, it took
a couple hundred years or thousands

971
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:08,830
of years to build our civilization.

972
01:18:10,570 --> 01:18:14,070
People believe what they believe over
twenty, thirty years of information

973
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:16,690
associated with their ideology.

974
01:18:17,650 --> 01:18:22,090
You're not going to change their mind
in one conversation, or one argument.

975
01:18:22,420 --> 01:18:25,480
Mostly, it's not, it's usually not
a conversation, it's an argument.

976
01:18:29,249 --> 01:18:33,560
Don't argue, have conversations,
and plant seeds of doubt.

977
01:18:33,650 --> 01:18:34,920
There we go, that's the call to action.

978
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,500
Plant seeds of doubt,
and let them germinate.

979
01:18:40,380 --> 01:18:46,520
ericbrazau.com, that's my
website, my blog, my podcast.

980
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:51,470
Um, and go to Amazon or you can buy
the book directly from my website.

981
01:18:54,450 --> 01:18:55,780
Say two, and I think

982
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:03,220
It's definitely been a fascinating
conversation, and it is definitely

983
01:19:03,220 --> 01:19:07,590
not what I thought it was going to
be and that makes it even better.

984
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:14,889
So I do hope that you enjoyed the
conversation because I know our

985
01:19:14,889 --> 01:19:17,470
listeners will definitely enjoy this.

986
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:27,795
And I really want to highlight one more
thing with you before we go, I ran across

987
01:19:27,795 --> 01:19:35,034
a, uh, I guess it's an organization up
there in Canada called Braver Angels.

988
01:19:35,335 --> 01:19:37,834
Have you heard of the organization?

989
01:19:39,125 --> 01:19:44,055
I really, I would really
encourage you to look that up.

990
01:19:44,135 --> 01:19:50,585
And I think you would be such a
fascinating fit for that organization

991
01:19:51,174 --> 01:19:52,875
because you do this so well.

992
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:56,380
And I encourage you to
look up Braver Angels.

993
01:19:56,420 --> 01:20:02,169
And anyone else that has been with us
this long in this conversation, you

994
01:20:02,180 --> 01:20:04,900
also need to go look up Braver Angels.

995
01:20:04,900 --> 01:20:11,700
And you know, that's really what
me, Eric and I have done here

996
01:20:11,700 --> 01:20:18,190
today is really highlight the work
that they have been doing also.

997
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:22,989
Eric, thank you so much for being
part of the Dead America family today.

998
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:26,829
It was, it's been my pleasure.

999
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:31,679
And after you read the book, I'm
sure you'll have many questions.

1000
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:33,319
Get, get in touch.

1001
01:20:34,415 --> 01:20:34,925
Thank you.

1002
01:20:35,145 --> 01:20:35,545
Good day.

1003
01:20:36,595 --> 01:20:36,645
Thanks.

1004
01:20:37,025 --> 01:20:37,365
Goodbye.

1005
01:20:39,845 --> 01:20:42,325
Oh yes, I will.

1006
01:20:42,415 --> 01:20:42,915
For sure.

1007
01:20:43,835 --> 01:20:44,295
Thank you.

1008
01:20:47,855 --> 01:20:49,645
Thank you for joining us today.

1009
01:20:50,195 --> 01:20:56,455
If you found this podcast enlightening,
entertaining, educational in any way,

1010
01:20:57,214 --> 01:21:03,595
please share, like, subscribe, and join
us right back here next week for another

1011
01:21:03,615 --> 01:21:06,545
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.

1012
01:21:07,305 --> 01:21:12,825
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy
your afternoon wherever you might be.