Can you feel it coming?
Something's waking up inside.
Hearts ablaze, we're standing tall breaking chains of yesterday.
Dead America finds its voice, in the darkness we make choice.
Truth and healing lead the way, hearts ablaze, we're here to stay.
Rise from ashes come what may, we're finding hope
in disarray.
Today we are speaking with Jessica Morris, she is an author.
She has a couple books out now, working on a few more, the books
are Higher Powered and Dewdrops.
Jessica, could you please introduce yourself?
And let people know just a little more about you, please.
Sure.
Uh, it's great to be with you today, Ed.
And I am, uh, just thrilled to be able to have a platform to talk more about,
uh, where I came from and everything.
Um, I, I am an author, I love that that's how you're introducing me
because it's the thing that I wanted to do my whole life and have spent
many, many years leading to that.
Uh, I am also a practicing spiritual director, uh, which I sort of tripped
over when I, I went to seminary to, um, specifically not to become a minister.
Most people go to seminary to become a minister.
But I went there to learn the Bible for myself, um, which my husband rolled his
eyes when I said that because there's not like a new big paycheck on the other side
of that when you're just going to learn it for yourself and not for a new profession.
Uh, but I grew up the, I'm, I'm the daughter of an alcoholic, uh, minister.
And so my upbringing was really weird when it came to God.
I was very confused about what God thought of me.
Um, I'm the youngest of four and when I was very young, my father told me that I
was a mistake and so I just assumed that meant that God thought I was a mistake
because my dad was also my minister.
And he was also a really good minister, he was definitely called to be a minister.
Uh, the people that he ministered to, he was very good at speaking,
counseling, being with people, he knew exactly, I mean, he really
did have a gift for all of that.
Uh, he didn't know how to do that with his family and he was, um, became
very violent, um, the more he drank.
And, uh, that was just, it was, and my mom was the classic codependent.
She was raised by an alcoholic and so she was really good
at being the minister's wife.
And she was a teacher in this very small town where I grew up and so she kept
everything, I mean, we were trained that, you know, we didn't talk about
anything that went on inside of our home.
And, you know, the people in the town knew that my father drank because it
was a very small town, a lot of hunters, uh, hunters and fishermen, and, um,
you know, blue collar type people.
Um, not that there's anything wrong with that, but they, you know, they
work hard and they party hard and he would go out drinking with them.
And I think that that sort of endeared him to them in a way because here's the
minister drinking with us, so it's okay, you know, he's out drinking and smoking
with the guys at the firehouse and, you know, that, that was just how we rolled.
It was also a very different time in this world.
I, you know, was raised in the seventies and the eighties and
so, you know, it was before all the drunk driving stuff, you know?
And, and you know, cops would find him, the cops in the town would find him
in the middle of a cornfield in his car and they'd, they'd lead him home
while he drove his car home, you know?
And I mean, there were all kinds of crazy stories like that.
Uh, but, but that's very tumultuous to grow up in that.
And, um, and then I very quickly became addicted myself.
Um, and I don't know, I can tell you that my food addiction, my addiction to
food, I believe I was born with that.
I do not remember a time in my life when I was not using food, uh, as a comfort.
I mean, food was my best friend right up until it turned on me.
Um, and then I started drinking pretty early as well, um, and using
the excuse that I'm having fun.
My dad's a jerk, but I'm having fun, you know?
And, uh, that very quickly became a problem and the two addictions
really, uh, played off of each other.
You know, because my, um, my food addiction had a lot of that up
and down yo-yo dieting and, um, I tried to be anorexic, I couldn't do
that because I love food too much.
You know, um, but I even tried to be bulimic because when I was in,
in high school, they, they had a lot of TV movies about girls who
were bulimic and people helped them.
And people didn't look at those girls like there was something
wrong with them, you know?
Whereas I was just overweight and nobody was helping me, you know?
Um, and so I try to become bulimic and I, I, I couldn't, I don't know if I
don't have a gag reflex or what, but I, I couldn't make myself throw up.
And then I discovered early on in my drinking career that when you drank
to extremes, you would throw up.
And so, uh, it was, it was a nightmare.
You can see where I'm going with this, right?
Uh, and then in the middle of all of it, uh, was me trying to find a
husband who was nothing like my father.
And that was an absolute disaster because every guy I went out
with was exactly like him.
You know, because that's what we do,
we, we go for people who, who are, um, who are, we're comfortable with.
And so that's a really long introduction.
But see what happens is I start talking about this and then I, I just keep going.
But that's where all of this, you know, my, the first time I remember writing
and receiving comfort from writing, uh, was when I was in fourth grade.
Mrs. Gehrig had us write our first poems and, uh, that was it for
me, I was hooked and I used it.
I rarely shared it with people until I was in, in like, later
in high school and college.
Um, 'cause you know, I was afraid nothing was ever good enough, you know?
And unless it was perfect, I was not gonna put it out there.
Uh, and there's no grade level for poetry.
I mean, it's very, um, artistic and, you know, I was using it in a way
that was very vulnerable because I was, um, I was really putting
myself out there in my poetry.
And more, what I've discovered now, I'm actually, one of the books that
I'm working on now is a collection of poetry and what I'm, it, I'm
calling The, The Collection Of Poetry, This is how God speaks to me.
Because what I'm recognizing is that as I'm going back and reading now,
these are poems that I've been posting on my blog since 2017, and what
I'm seeing is that there's a lot of wisdom in this poetry that I know at
that time in my life I didn't have.
So I know that that was God giving me direction before I
even knew that it was direction.
Do, do you know what I mean?
Like that, that sounds a little crazy, but that's, so that's
a really long introduction.
That, that's all right.
We, we love long introductions here at the Dead America Podcast.
And the thing that captures me the most is, you were raised
very similar to me in the time.
However, my parents were, uh, partiers, drunkards.
And, you know, the, the one thing that stands out is, I, I received my
learner's permit, driver's license, you know, at the age of sixteen back then.
And this, this took us on a journey because all of the drunks climbed
in the back of the truck and two up front with me driving them around.
And an Idaho state trooper, you know, he pulls us over.
Everybody's just wasted and here I am thinking we're all
going to the hoosegow here.
And, uh, the Idaho State police officer, you know, said, What is happening here?
And ended up, uh, he, he escorted us on our way home and made sure we
made it and that's as far as it went.
So the time has really changed.
But that timeframe that you're talking about, the seventies,
early seventies into the eighties, eighties, I was, you know, getting
married and moving on to real life.
That really developed me in that timeframe where alcohol was prevalent, cigarettes.
You know, smoking in the grocery store with ashes hanging over the,
uh, produce, it used to freak me out.
It's like, What is this?
And now that I have control over my life, I look back and think, Wow, no wonder I
was so addicted and strung out on things.
And so how much did that timeframe play in the way you handled things?
Because we didn't have a lot of help during that time period.
Right.
If there, it was not, you know, there were no school psychiatrists, there
were no, you know, like you maybe had a school nurse if you were lucky, you know?
Um, and you know, but I remember, I remember going to my Girl Scout leader,
um, and this is, you know, like, and asking her about certain things that I
should have been asking my mom about.
And it wasn't because my mom wasn't a loving woman, it was just by the time I
came along, like I said, I'm the youngest of four and my mom also had my father
who was like a giant toddler, you know?
I mean, he was just a train wreck, you know?
I mean, and so by the time I came along and I was, if I wasn't a mistake, I was
a surprise, you know, um, not planned.
And, um, you know, so she was tired.
She was, she was tired.
And my, um, how I coped really, my sister, who is, uh, the oldest in my
family, she's six years older than I am, and she pretty much, uh, you know,
I don't think she did this consciously, but she took me on as her own.
And she, and to this day, she is like, she's my parent, she's my best friend,
she's, she's the one who came to me when my drinking was completely outta control.
Of all my family, she's the only one who's ever really called me out.
And I know that was hard for her to do that because I mean, we
are, we are tight, you know, and I'm, I'm like her baby, you know?
I mean, it's weird to say that, I'm fifty-five years old, but,
you know, I, I am like her baby when I graduated from seminary.
I mean, I think she's more proud in the picture than I am, you
know, because I finally am clean.
You know, I did, it took me about a year after she, she asked me or talked to me
about my alcohol to do anything about it.
I mean, that's how much addiction really takes over your life is it doesn't even
matter who's begging you to get well.
But she, she took, she took me under her wing and she took me everywhere
with her as soon as she got her license.
And she, I mean, I knew all her friends, I was like everybody's little sister because
she took me outta the house whenever she could get me outta the house, you know?
And, and my siblings in between, we have two,
I have a sister and a brother in between us.
They were sort of like the escape artists.
They were very smart, they were both really, really intelligent.
Not that we aren't, but they were, you know, like my brother's
crazy, IT math, you know, smart.
That makes my head hurt when I even think about it.
And then my other sister's a doctor, you know, they're very
much overachieving, you know?
And, um, so they, when they both went to college, they pretty much never came home.
You know, they, they stayed there in the summers, they, you know, and that's
kind of how they were with school.
You know, they always had something going on in some activity or whatever.
And while my older sister and I both played sports, that's kind
of where it sort of, we weren't as involved, let's say, as they were.
And so we just hung out, we did everything together.
And, um, so she, she really was, you know, when I think about
how did I cope with that time?
I think it was, she coped with it by, you know, taking me away from the house.
Um, and, and I wrote a lot.
I wrote a lot, especially when I got to college and I had nowhere to go with
this stuff because everybody, I was looking around me and thinking, you
know, basically I never told anybody that my dad told me I was a mistake.
Like, that was a, that was a secret that I held inside of me 'cause I
thought if other people know this, then they're gonna discard me too.
And as much as that harmed my relationship with God, and this is
gonna sound crazy, um, it actually made me feel closer to Jesus.
Because, and, and I talk about this a little bit in my book, because
how I looked at it, I don't know if you remember, um, or if you ever saw
it, but there was a miniseries on television in the seventies and they
would play it every year around Easter.
It was called Jesus of Nazareth, and it was from the birth of
Jesus to the resurrection.
And we had just gotten, I'm really gonna date myself now,
we had just gotten a beta max.
Do you remember the beta before VHS?
And so I had, I had recorded it, uh, I think I was probably like
ten years old, and I recorded it on like four tapes 'cause it took a
lot of those tapes to record stuff.
And I would just watch it over and over and over again.
And in it, the guy who played Jesus was so calm and, um, just
his presence on screen was very, uh, it just filled me with peace.
And the part, and it was, and, and actually if you've seen the
passion of the Christ, you know what the beating looked like for real.
And so when I look back at Jesus of Nazareth now, I
think, well, that was nothing.
But at the time it was pretty violent what they were showing you.
It was, it really was nothing compared to what we see today.
But when I was a kid, it was huge.
And what I saw was Jesus' father was abandoning him and beating him, just
the way my father wasn't, was abandoning me and punishing me and beating me.
And so that's how I related it in my diseased little brain
and, and it kept me connected.
Like I never, as much as I ran away from the church, I ran away
from God, I always loved Jesus and I knew that Jesus loved me.
And, you know, I remember when I said that in seminary and, uh, my one
professor was just like, it was like the most horrible thing he'd ever heard.
And I'm like, No, no, you don't understand.
This is what kept me connected, This is a good thing, you know?
Um, because God uses everything.
That's how I see it.
That's right.
Yeah.
You know, I, I relate well with that.
You know, through all of the disasters I've been through, the thick and
the thin, it, it's apparent that Jesus himself was there with me.
You know, I often think about the poem, Footsteps.
Where they're walking down the beach and you see one set of footprints,
and then it turns into two.
And he, he says, Well, why, why were you not there with me all this time?
Those are the times I was packing you.
And, you know,
as I studied and researched you, there was a portion of your life
where you kind of just broke it down and said, Hey, enough's enough.
And I, I had that moment where I had the f.u. fight with God himself.
I found myself homeless, shoving all of my possessions into this
little box storage unit, and my wife, my dog, we were just alone.
And I didn't know what I was going to do, where we were going to
go, how we were going to survive.
And I, I remember having that, Hey, what are you doing to me?
Why am I here?
And, you know, it, it, it took me to the place of realizing that all
of my life, I was living for myself.
And He broke me, He broke me into little pieces, rubble.
And that rock I was, now He put that into His own form and He formed concrete.
And now my life with Christ is solid.
And I, I'm here on the podcast and I speak to non-believers, I talk to, you
know, people that just, people shouldn't talk to in the eyes of Christians,
but that's where they're wrong.
You know, Jesus spent His time with these broken people and He, He showed
them how to live and this is important.
People so often focus on their own self and its selfish.
When we open our eyes and we discover we all live here together
and it's all working together, this is truly when we're reborn.
And when that moment hits, what was that like for you?
Oh, well, it was, um,
wow, that's, it was a living hell at first.
Uh, you know, I mean, because I was, um, not only was I an addict, okay, uh,
very actively food addicted, alcohol addicted, uh, but I was also the other
side of the coin, which is that crazy codependent, um, you know, just trying
to manipulate all the addicts around me to do what I wanted them to do.
Um, with the people pleasing, and the, you know, manipulation, and the, all of
that underhanded stuff that you can't even really point at when you're, you
know, it's, it's, it's so much easier to point at the food and the booze
and go, There's your problem, Jessica.
Put those things aside and all will be well, you know?
And the problem with that is that you remove those things and what
happens is all the things that you've been, for me anyway, all the things
I was pushing down with those things started to rise to the surface.
The trauma of my childhood, the abuse, the mental, more the mental abuse and
the spiritual abuse than the physical.
Like,
I would've much rather my father beat the crap outta me than any of the things he
said to me because I can tell you that the things he said to me still play.
Like even though I've gone through, in my early recovery, when I, once I put
the food and the booze down, I, I, um, I had a significant amount of years with
a really, really gifted man, uh, who was an addictions counselor and he helped
me to, to kind of like uncover all those things and recognize that not only was
I the problem in that I was the addict, but I was also playing the victim.
I enjoyed the victim role to a really weird extent.
You know, like it, it was comfortable, I knew how to be the victim.
And I'll never forget when he said to me, oh, this blew my mind,
he said, you know, Jessica, he said, You're a victim until you're eighteen
and after that, you're a volunteer.
And you've been volunteering, you've been volunteering for a long time.
It's time for you to take control of your life.
And by that I mean, not manipulating the crap out of everyone around
you, but putting the onus on you to be responsible for your feelings.
You know, to not, you know, when I would, I would say things like,
Well, he made me feel that way.
And he'd go, Nobody, nobody has that much power over you unless
you give it to them, you know?
And it is so true when you start, when you just change your mind a little bit in that
direction, but I'm, I'm getting ahead.
You know, the living hell came, uh, I, I am, I, I don't know if this is what
you were referencing, but, and I talk about this in the very beginning of
the book, when Jesus appeared to me,
um, I was a couple years out of college and just really in the throes of my
alcoholism and was, um, going back to my college campus to party and,
because that's what you do when you're a professional, you go back and you party
with your college friends all the time, and it was, it was a January night,
it was freezing cold and, um, I was outside of this party by myself smoking
a cigarette and I was hating my life.
My friends were getting married, um, some of them were even having babies
at that point, you know, and I just looked up at the sky and saw nothing.
But, you know, it was an absolutely gorgeous, clear
night and a gazillion stars
and all I saw was my hatred for God and what He had done to me.
You know, I was His victim, you know, and I let Him have it.
And I told Him everything, I yelled at Him and I asked Him
when it was gonna be my turn.
You know, when did I get to have a life that was wonderful.
And, uh, I had this moment of warmth, uh, come over me and I knew with every ounce
of my being that if I turned to my left, Jesus would be standing right next to me.
Like just standing there physically, not a spirit, not an abarition, just Him there
ready to hold me and hug me and love me.
And it immediately terrified me and I ran, like it went from that
warmth, gorgeous, beautiful feeling within a nanosecond to terror,
and I ran back into the party.
And the next, I wanna say it was about six or seven years were a living hell.
Uh, before that was shitty, let's say, okay.
Um, this was the separation from God in that time and I get
emotional when I think about this.
Um, it was so much a desert, I, I don't know how else to describe it.
It was so empty and my life was so
lonely and isolated and, um, it was horrible.
I was suicidal, I was, um, in fact, at one point during that, a very close
friend convinced me to go get a cat.
She's like, I need to take you to get a, to adopt a cat, you need
to have an animal in your house.
You know, like she, she didn't know what else to do, you know?
And we went, and this pathetic cat, uh, she was just this pathetic little kitten,
she had been thrown out of a car.
And she had, like, she still, she was, she was so fresh into the, um, humane
society that she still had like little oil and grease spots on her from having
been, you know, thrown on the highway and miraculously saved by some samaritan
who brought her into the Humane Society.
And she ended up, I just took her home.
I was like, That's it, that's the one, I want her.
And I remember the first night thinking to myself, What did I do?
I can't take care of this animal.
You know, 'cause you know how kittens are, she's just nonstop screaming, you know?
And that was the only time I ever thought I can't take care of her.
We, I, I mean, I, she became the reason I lived.
She literally became the reason I lived.
And it was, it was, uh, in fact, there was one moment, when she was probably
about three or four years old, when I was seriously considering, you
know, like, How am I gonna do this?
'Cause at that point I was significantly overweight, the food
had turned on me during this time, and I couldn't stop eating it.
But it wasn't doing anything for me anymore.
Like I, I, I wanted to stop and I couldn't.
I, I, I, it, it's so hard to describe that to people.
Um, but I, in fact, I've, I've shared this with my husband who's also in recovery,
and it, he, it, it baffles him because he's in recovery for alcohol addiction.
And when he eats and he gets full, he's, you know, he's just like,
I don't understand how you could keep eating if you were full.
And I'm like, I don't know how to explain it to you.
I, there were nights when I couldn't lay down in bed 'cause I
was afraid I was going to choke.
That's how much I had eaten and it, and there, it was not digesting fast enough.
And, um, so I mean, it was bad.
And I was close to 300 pounds, I'm only five four.
And I just, I was thinking, How can I kill myself?
Like I was looking around my apartment thinking, How can I
kill myself so that it's not a burden for them to carry me out?
Like, How can I do this?
You know, who were them?
I don't even know who I was.
You know, the firemen, I guess.
But these are the thoughts that were going through my head and I'm having
this little inner dialogue in my head and, please don't think I'm crazy, but
I swear my cat walked into the room and she stood up on her back legs.
She didn't really, but this is what, this is what I remember.
She stood up on her back legs and put her front legs on her hips and was just
like, Well, what about me if you do this?
You know, like that was, she communicated to me, I need you.
And that was it, I never thought about it again.
It was probably six months to a year after that that I got into recovery.
Um, but during that time, uh, and I got into recovery 'cause a
counselor I was seeing suggested it.
And, and she, she said, You know, I wanna be able to help you
but all these issues with your life, none of it is gonna take hold no
matter what work we do until you get these addictions under control.
And because I, I complained all the time about the fact
that I couldn't stop eating.
And she sent me to recovery and I knew from the moment I walked in that door,
and I talk about this in the book, in hindsight, I know that Jesus knew
I couldn't look directly at him so he spoke to me through these women.
Because that night, I remember there were three women at that
meeting that I remember so clearly.
And the more I remember, you know, the further away I get from it, the more
clarity I have on that first meeting that it was, Jesus was using them.
I'm getting chills telling you this, like He was literally using those people.
Whether they believed in Him or not, doesn't matter, He
was using them to talk to me.
Because the things that they said were exactly what I needed.
The first one, I walked in the room and it was before the meeting started, and she
was sitting in a group of women and they were all together laughing and everything.
So of course I went and sat on the other end of the table
'cause, you know, I'm not, nobody likes me, so I'll sit over here.
You know, I had all these ideas in my head.
Well, she was just this thin, pretty young woman, and she got up from the group, left
the group while they were still laughing, and came over and sat next to me and
talked to me until the meeting started
like I was important.
And I was just flabbergasted that this pretty person wanted
to talk to me, you know?
And then the woman who shared her story that night, she sent
her pictures around the room.
'Cause she's this tall, skinny, blonde woman and here I am, this fat,
dumpy, dark haired girl, you know?
And, and, and I was just thinking she was saying all the right things, but I
was thinking someone must have given her a script because she was never like me.
And I got this little photo album of pictures of her as she was telling her
story and she was exactly like me, all these pictures of her obese and with
that dead look in her eyes that I felt.
And then as I was leaving the meeting, this woman who I ended
up calling crazy Jean over time, she was, uh, she's in heaven now
so she doesn't care that I said her name out loud, but she, um, she killed
herself getting across the room to me.
And she, I don't remember a lot of what she said other than she
showed me her pictures also.
She said, I wanted to show you I've always carried my pictures with
me too 'cause it's hard to believe that everybody sitting in here who's
in skinny bodies actually was once like you and you need to see it.
And, and so she showed me a couple of her pictures and then she said, um, as I was
trying to get away from her, 'cause as much as I knew I was in the right place, I
also wanted to get the hell out of there.
I was like, I can't, this is way too much.
I can't handle this.
And, and she, as I was walking away, she called my name and, which
shocked me because I had only said my name way back at the beginning
of the meeting when they asked if it, it was anybody's first meeting.
And so I turned around and she looked dead in my eyes and I know this was
Jesus looking right in my eyes and she said, Jessica, please come back.
I really, really want you to come back.
I never left.
I never left the program no matter what was happening, no matter how
angry I was, no matter how much the people annoyed me, because it's,
it's kind of like church, you know?
There's always somebody that's gonna be annoying, you know?
It doesn't matter, you know?
And, but I just kept going back there and getting exactly what I needed.
Nobody made me be religious, you know?
All they said to me was, and that's why I named the book Higher Powered,
all they said was, You gotta have a power that's greater than you.
We don't care if it's the God of your childhood, we don't care who it is, you
know, just don't make it another person.
You know, if it's the, but for a long time, whenever I would hear the
word God, I would think good, orderly direction because that's what I was
getting from this community of people.
I was getting good orderly direction and that was my higher
power for a really long time.
You know, until I was able to once again, look Jesus in the
face and say, You're it man.
You know, you're, you're my numero uno guy.
But it took me a while 'cause I was still, I had so much shame.
I had so much shame for the things I had done in my active addiction and, and
just the horrible thoughts that I had.
And I mean, I could go on and on forever, but that's when, yeah,
that's when it turned for me.
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's a lot to unpack, but it's, it's very
important what you outlined there.
Addicts are addicts, it doesn't matter if it's food, or booze, or whatever.
It's up here inside our head.
And once we realize, oh, I control that.
That's, that's really something that a lot of us need to remember, we control that.
And I used to be ashamed of my past life too, because I did some horrendous things.
I mean, I, I danced about doing horrendous things.
But now that I, I'm about to turn sixty, uh, and I look back on that and I'm
happy and pleased that I lived that life.
And I heard you say the very same thing.
It gave me substance and that rubble that God broke when He wanted to,
He waited until I was ready for it
because He doesn't give us what we can't handle.
And, and that shows us, after we come through that storm, wow, I
did that and I can do more now.
And it gives us that bump that we need and it gets us through.
So it's really important that we recognize people, places, and
things in our lives because they're important and we control that.
We have to set boundaries on each of those things because life is
about enjoying what's around us.
And if we're putting those bad negative things around us, that's
what we're going to experience.
And after we wake up and we finally figure out what we have to offer society, we
tend to shed that shame a lot easier.
Because believe me, I still mess up and I get that shame and guilt because
it keeps us on track and it's okay.
So Lois Hollis, one of the gals that I have interviewed in the past, she
talks about shame and guilt and being able to name it and, uh, own up to
it and not let it control you, but you be okay with them being in your
life because they're part of you.
And I think it's really important that people get that.
Yeah.
And, you know, the, um, the, you know, I talked about Jesus of Nazareth and
how important that was to me growing up, you know, that mini series.
And then, and I, and I would escape into movies a lot, that
was one of my other outlets, you know, I just escaped into movies.
But, you know, I was thinking about when you were saying the shame thing, um, I
don't know if you've ever seen the movie Passion of the Christ that Mel Gibson did,
Um, it's a very difficult movie to watch.
It's beautifully done.
Um, but there's a scene in it, and this, this movie came out in 2004 and
I was just finishing up that work I was talking about with that therapist, you
know, where I had, um, uncovered most of my childhood trauma stuff and done
the work on that to move beyond it,
and I went to see this movie in the theater and there's this scene in the
movie where Jesus or, um, the, the, uh, woman who Jesus saves from being
stoned, um, she has a, she, she's watching Him be beat during His beating
prior to the crucifixion, and she sees the blood and she gets down to
try to mop the blood up and she's on the ground and she has a flashback to
when He saved her from being stoned.
And the way they film that scene, it's all from her point of view.
And so you're seeing all these rocks drop down and these stones drop down
and then these men sort of back away from her and she reaches for His foot.
And then she looks up and, and He's, His face is there and the sun is
like right behind His, His head.
And it's just like this bright, beautiful vision and then you see His
hand come down and, and pick her up.
And I will never forget, I, I, I, I wish there was a way, I tried to write to
Mel Gibson and the letter actually ended up coming back to me as undeliverable.
I, I was like, How do I get in touch with this man to tell him that if you
don't ever do anything ever again for the rest of your life, what you did
in that scene, and at the time that I saw it in my life, brought me back to
Jesus because I, because I had left the shame on that therapist floor.
And when I saw Jesus picking her up, I was feeling Him pick me up.
Like, it was like He knew now I could look at Him now, I could look directly at Him.
And that's when things really started to change for me and I was able to, I,
I at, during that same time I met, um, there was a new chaplain where I worked,
he just started that year and he was the first, it took a little while,
but he was the first, what I call man of the cloth in my whole life.
I was like thirty-four years old at that point that I was able to sit down
with and really talk about God and Jesus and be vulnerable and trust him.
And he became my, it was like God gave me the therapist and then when that
work was done, He gave me this chaplain who just, he was the one who encouraged
me to go to seminary, he, he was like the dad that I never had, you know?
And, and it was just, God has just consistently done that for me.
Like, He's just put people in my life that I just feel so blessed that I would
never change anything that happened to me because I, I don't wanna do it again,
I don't have to go back there, you know?
But I wouldn't change it because it, it, all of it drew me to Him, you
know, all of it drew me closer to God and it made me seek harder and, and,
and, um, uh, maybe appreciate more the people in my life and, yeah, all that.
I mean, it's just, I could go on and on for hours, so I'll stop there.
Yeah.
Well, you know, Jessica, the, the big thing there is sometimes we think we love
people and we don't even know how to love.
And when we accept Christ, it opens us up to understanding what true love is.
And if we really look at the story of Christ Himself, it will change
you if you accept the story.
And, and that's your obligation, it, it's your choice.
And He's not pressuring anyone to accept, He just wants you to be aware.
And, and anyone that cannot see what that offers you, it,
it, you have some growth to do.
And I never discourage and I never say they're bad people, it's, it's
not the people, it's what they do.
Well, right.
And it's, it takes what it takes to, to, you know, like for me, for a long time
I couldn't accept it for a long time because of what I had come from, you know?
And so it, like you, I loved how you described it when you were talking
about the footprints, you know, even in those darkest times, Jesus is with us.
You know, He showed up outside that party for me probably, I'm, I'm
guessing He knew I was gonna run away because He knows everything.
But He showed up there anyway because He wanted me to know I'm right here
when you're ready, I'm right here.
You know, and that's the, that's the beautiful thing that I think people miss.
It's not about what I'm gonna do today to get Jesus to love me, He already loves me.
I can't, there's nothing I can do that's gonna get Him to
love me, it's not about that.
It's about getting rid of all this crap that's in between me and Jesus, you know?
Because that's what it is, it's all crap.
All of it.
Yep.
And, and, you know, to add to it, some of the last words that Christ said while
He was on the Earth is, Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.
And I always look to the cross at that moment in time when I'm dealing with
difficult people, places, and things and it humbles me and it lets me remember.
And, and I love how you described the scene in the Passion of the Christ, where
the focal point was the woman and watching all the stones drop, chills, you know?
It, it is how you perceive things and the people you choose to put around you.
And sometimes you have no control and that's the times He's got you, man.
And you will get through it, just wait for the better times on the
other side and that will give you fuel to get through to the next one.
Uh, and yes, we could speak for hours about things.
I barely scratched the surface with you, Jessica.
Uh, the main thing, you, you said it earlier, when you had the dead look in
your eyes, and that's what this podcast is about, Dead America, that dead feeling
inside, we all can feel great again.
We can all feel the love that we have waiting for us,
and it's all just a choice.
Is there anything, Is there anything you'd like to add to our conversation?
Yeah, and that's the, that's the other thing.
I'm glad you brought that up because one of the things that attracted me to
your podcast was the title of it, which is hilarious because, you know, um,
it, it kind of catches you off guard.
Yeah.
But, you know, my, my thesis idea came because I spent so much
time in my life being terrified.
And even in that, in that moment when Jesus came to me, His love scared
me so much, um, that I ran away.
You know, I was so afraid, you know, when the end of the world happened,
I was going to be burning in the flames with the sinners, you know?
And, and all those things that, you know, there were
really scary movies about the devil when I was growing up, like The
Exorcist and the Omen and, you know, those, those things that said we're all
gonna die and it's gonna be horrible.
You know, the, just apocalyptic fear.
And I remember sitting in seminary and, and thinking, you know, we're
learning all about how Jesus was so metaphorical in how He spoke and how
He shared parables and everything was symbolic and He wanted people to
dig deeper into what He was saying.
And I thought to myself, Well, maybe when He was talking about His second
coming, maybe that was metaphorical.
And that's when I started to come up with this idea of personal, a
personal death, a personal end times.
The word eschatology is in the subtitle of my book, and that
means the end of time, the end of things, the study of the end times.
I, because when I was in, when I was in seminary, I had been, I, I think
I was about fourteen, fifteen years in recovery when I started seminary
so I, I was a completely new person.
Like I, I was, talk about born again.
I mean, that person who showed up at that first meeting while she's still
in here and all I have to do is throw a cookie down my throat and I'll find her
again, I'm sure, you know, I don't wanna, I don't want any part of that, right?
But, um, she's still there.
But I had to die to so much of myself in order to truly live, like what
you're talking about, like to, to truly live the life I was created to live.
The things about me that were killing me had to be killed.
You know, because they were, I was kind of absorbing myself.
I was so self-absorbed that
I just kind of kept like feeding off of
myself.
And I was, it was, it was, like I said, it was a walking, living hell.
And so that's what I would add to it that, you know, and it's,
it's an, it's a, um, for me it's an ongoing process of awakening.
Like it's, because what'll happen is I'll die to something like, let's say I die
to the, the food and the alcohol, right?
And I go, Okay, I'm gonna put that down, not gonna be a part of my life.
And then this self-centered victimhood comes up and I have to die to that.
And then I, you know, and then I, and then I recognized, wow,
I judged the crap out of people.
Okay, now I gotta let, and all these things, I can die to them because
I have this relationship with Jesus Christ that, you know, I go to Him
and I go, Could you help me with this?
Because me trying to do it, I just keep messing up.
You know, and I'm gonna need you to take this from me.
The way He lifted me up off the ground, He needs to also take this from me.
I have to show up and do the work, but He's going to, He's
gonna do the heavy lifting.
So yeah, that's what I would add.
The, the, the big key is people are always watching and they're watching
for something better than themselves.
So don't display something that is contrary to what Christ would have
you display and that's hard to do.
And sometimes you're gonna be caught off guard doing those things.
It's the prodigal son thing, they, they will rejoice in heaven when you return
from those ways but you're always welcome.
And that's the thing, judging other people for where they are in this journey,
it will never bring them to the path.
And once we strip away, I like how you say it's basically being born
again when you strip away all that judgment, that hate, that diluted
thought that we allow into ourselves.
That's when we find the glory of God and I, I love it.
Jessica, could you tell people about your books, how to get ahold of you, and all
of, the call to action for our listeners?
Yeah.
Uh, everything you need to know about me or how to contact me, you can find
via my website, it's jessicalmorris.com.
Very easy to find, it's just my name with my middle initial.
Um, and my books are on there, information about spiritual direction
is there, um, my blog is there, which has a lot of my poetry on it, I mean,
everything you wanna know, it's there.
There's even a couple of, um, videos from different podcasts I've been
on, um, and some of my own lectures and, uh, speaking, and, you know,
things like, all kinds of stuff there.
Um, so yeah.
I mean, my call to action every day is, you know, God, what, what can I
do today that will bring glory to you?
You know, 'cause for a long time, you know, it was about what can I do
to, um, further my writing career?
You know, God show me how to get my, get people to buy my book, show me how
to get published, show me how to make more money so I can help, you know,
with the household finances, you know, all these things I was praying for.
And now I just get on my knees and I'm like, God, what can
bring glory to you today?
Put it in front of me today.
And, and, you know, sometimes I fall flat on my face.
Other times I, you know, I go to bed at night and go, Wow,
God, you really used me today.
You know, that was awesome.
I mean, heck, last week I did Vacation Bible school at my church, and I don't
even really like kids that much, you know?
But, but I mean, I, they asked me to do it and I was like, I
was like, All right, whatever.
And, you know, I gotta tell you, it was, well, I like, yeah, I'm
much more suited for adults.
Um, you know, it, it really was eye-opening for me, um, to be present
with those kids for a week and, and to do that and to meet some other
people in the church that I wouldn't have met otherwise, you know?
And so you never know what might happen when you say yes to something that
before you would've, you know, there's this great line in one of my recovery
programs where they say, Be careful of contempt prior to investigation.
And for me, I need to think about that a lot because there's a lot
of things in my life that I'm like, Oh, no, no, I, I don't do that.
Well, did I ever try it?
Did I ever research it?
You know, I'm, I, I wanna let go of that closed-mindedness.
And so I don't know about Vacation Bible school again, because I have
tried it once, but you never know.
There's something there, you know, there's a message in that someplace.
Jessica, it has been a pleasure speaking with you today.
I wanna say thank you for sharing your story here on the
Dead America Podcast with us.
Oh, thank you so much, Ed.
It was, it was an absolute honor for me.
Thank you.
She grew up in the church house shadow white clapboard and stained glass light,
knew every verse by heart at seven but the words never felt quite right.
Preacher's girl this Sunday bears hiding what she couldn't be.
Years of silence built a prison.
Minister's daughter drowns in
pain, Jesus finds her in the rain.
Steve and Paul show her the way, dying to self, she's born today.
Second coming lies within.
She met them at a Wednesday meeting, not the kind her father led,
two old souls with gentle wisdom spoke of grace instead of dread.
They didn't quote her father's sermon,
didn't ask her to repent, just sat with her, stilled the rage beside the river.
Minister's daughter drowns in pain, Jesus finds her in the rain.
Steve and Paul show her the way, dying to self, she's born today.
Second coming lies within.
All the rules she tried to follow, all the weight she tried to bear,
falling like October leaves now, dissolving in the autumn air.
Now she walks a different pathway, still believes, but breathes more free,
sees her father on most Sundays knows he'll never truly see.
That there's a kingdom blooming in her found in letting go of
the fight, sometimes redemption looks like drowning, sometimes death proceeds light.
Minister's daughter drowns in pain, Jesus finds her in the rain.
Steve and Paul show her the way, dying to self, she's born today.
Second coming lies within.