1 00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:05,850 You know, like actually sometimes I'll get so much dopamine from a conversation 2 00:00:05,850 --> 00:00:09,810 that I have to like chill for a little bit to like come back to baseline. 3 00:00:10,110 --> 00:00:13,770 'Cause you can have a really fast crash after a good conversation 'cause you don't 4 00:00:13,770 --> 00:00:16,770 know what to do with yourself with all the chemicals that are floating around. 5 00:00:17,130 --> 00:00:19,920 It's been a learning curve to kind of understand that. 6 00:00:54,435 --> 00:00:56,955 Today, we're speaking with Malisa Hepner. 7 00:00:57,435 --> 00:01:02,745 She is an author, a speaker, a podcast host, also a licensed 8 00:01:02,985 --> 00:01:04,515 clinical social worker. 9 00:01:04,965 --> 00:01:07,245 Malisa, could you please introduce yourself? 10 00:01:07,515 --> 00:01:09,705 Let people know a little more about you, please. 11 00:01:11,325 --> 00:01:13,245 Hello, I'm Malisa. 12 00:01:13,335 --> 00:01:18,105 I don't know how much you want me to go back, but, uh, I'll 13 00:01:18,105 --> 00:01:19,695 give you a really quick summary. 14 00:01:19,905 --> 00:01:25,650 Um, about a year ago, I started a podcast. 15 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:31,740 I quit my full-time employment, I started a private practice, and uh, 16 00:01:31,770 --> 00:01:33,900 kind of on an entrepreneurial journey. 17 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:40,260 I had a spiritual awakening during the beginning of my healing, and I'm 18 00:01:40,260 --> 00:01:45,495 just kind of on a global mission to, I always say, I'm, I'm, I'm changing 19 00:01:45,495 --> 00:01:47,025 the world, starting with mine. 20 00:01:47,025 --> 00:01:52,125 So I'm, what I find is that the more I learn about myself and apply 21 00:01:52,365 --> 00:01:56,865 love, compassion, understanding to myself, the more I can see 22 00:01:56,865 --> 00:01:58,634 all of the same things in others. 23 00:01:58,634 --> 00:02:02,445 And just a really close connection to humanity in general. 24 00:02:02,685 --> 00:02:08,640 And so every time I change something in my world, it changes the world around me. 25 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:11,100 And I'm just kind of looking for that ripple effect, you know, 26 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:13,170 sharing my story as much as possible. 27 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:21,120 And, um, just showing people healing's possible, it's not as hard as we make it. 28 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,860 And ultimately life's not about healing, uh, you know, uh, we heal so 29 00:02:25,860 --> 00:02:28,410 that we can live life to the fullest. 30 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,770 I agree with that a hundred percent, Malisa. 31 00:02:33,270 --> 00:02:37,950 Be the change you wanna see in the world, Gandhi, it's one of 32 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,250 the great quotes of all times. 33 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:48,840 And if you are really true to that, you'll find that you do a lot of inner work. 34 00:02:48,930 --> 00:02:54,480 And that is hard, especially when you come from backgrounds that 35 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:58,590 might not be the best per se. 36 00:02:59,010 --> 00:03:01,770 But we all have our backgrounds. 37 00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:06,600 So why don't you start with your background and tell people 38 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,240 what, what your life was like when you were young growing up. 39 00:03:13,590 --> 00:03:21,000 Okay, so I was, um, in the hospital by two months old for neglect, essentially. 40 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:24,240 My parents were addicts, they just kind of didn't know what they were doing. 41 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:28,680 Um, like I don't think they were intentionally not taking good care 42 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,735 of me, it just, they had very limited capacity to do anything different. 43 00:03:33,305 --> 00:03:37,415 And, uh, did a lot of back and forth, even in that first year, 44 00:03:37,685 --> 00:03:39,905 between my grandma and my mom. 45 00:03:39,905 --> 00:03:46,235 I was put in, uh, foster care at like ten months old as well and, 46 00:03:46,325 --> 00:03:48,095 uh, maybe, maybe younger than that. 47 00:03:48,095 --> 00:03:52,725 But basically with addict parents, I experienced every type of 48 00:03:52,725 --> 00:03:54,825 abuse that you can experience. 49 00:03:54,975 --> 00:03:59,204 And, either by them or someone that they put me around. 50 00:03:59,625 --> 00:03:59,954 And 51 00:04:02,115 --> 00:04:06,165 we went back and forth between my mom and my grandparents until I 52 00:04:06,165 --> 00:04:09,975 was about eight and then my grandma got permanent guardianship of us. 53 00:04:09,975 --> 00:04:15,315 We did, uh, foster care sort of, um, through our state agency, 54 00:04:15,555 --> 00:04:22,575 and then my grandpa divorced my grandma when I was twelve and left 55 00:04:22,575 --> 00:04:24,435 her for his best friend's wife. 56 00:04:24,915 --> 00:04:30,555 And at that time we got, uh, involved in a private foster care agency 57 00:04:30,585 --> 00:04:36,225 'cause my grandma, she did not have any way to take care of or support. 58 00:04:36,225 --> 00:04:40,935 I mean, she had been staying at home with us and then prior to that, with her kids. 59 00:04:40,935 --> 00:04:43,935 I mean, she supported my grandpa's business. 60 00:04:44,115 --> 00:04:46,185 He was a truck driver, he had a hauling business. 61 00:04:46,575 --> 00:04:50,025 And so she just didn't have any capacity to financially care for us. 62 00:04:50,055 --> 00:04:54,255 And we were, it was a program called the Casey Family 63 00:04:54,255 --> 00:04:55,815 Program, amazing organization. 64 00:04:55,815 --> 00:04:59,445 I'm still to this day, so grateful for them, dedicated my first book to them. 65 00:04:59,864 --> 00:05:05,294 But, um, so then we're still doing a lot of, like, my parents are involved, 66 00:05:05,655 --> 00:05:10,055 but they're still raging addicts, in and out of prison, in and out of jail. 67 00:05:10,055 --> 00:05:13,784 Like, it's, like someone's constantly incarcerated, usually my mom. 68 00:05:13,784 --> 00:05:15,734 I mean, if I'm being fair, it was mostly my mom. 69 00:05:16,094 --> 00:05:19,065 Uh, my dad had his fair share, but he was a lot better at staying 70 00:05:19,065 --> 00:05:20,025 out of trouble than she was. 71 00:05:20,195 --> 00:05:24,635 But then my dad died of a morphine overdose when I was fifteen and my mom 72 00:05:24,635 --> 00:05:31,355 died of complications related to Hep C and cirrhosis when she, when I was, uh, almost 73 00:05:31,355 --> 00:05:33,065 twenty-two, pregnant with my first kid. 74 00:05:33,665 --> 00:05:40,505 And it was just so much trauma on the daily 'cause my grandma as the, though 75 00:05:40,505 --> 00:05:42,905 she did her best, was also a narcissist. 76 00:05:42,965 --> 00:05:47,675 And, uh, it was incredibly difficult dealing with 77 00:05:48,095 --> 00:05:53,310 recurring trauma and then also the constant criticism 78 00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:56,010 and division that's created. 79 00:05:56,010 --> 00:06:00,120 And I was surrounded by a very unhealthy, toxic family system. 80 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,510 So because I lived with my grandma, all the cousins, all the aunts, 81 00:06:03,540 --> 00:06:06,810 uncle, you know, they came to our house and we were around them a lot. 82 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:12,180 And while it created some good memories, it also created a lot of strife within 83 00:06:12,180 --> 00:06:15,070 because it was a really unhealthy system. 84 00:06:15,890 --> 00:06:23,895 And so I took a lot, a lot, a lot of very maladaptive coping behaviors into 85 00:06:23,895 --> 00:06:29,095 my adulthood, and that is, that's kind of where I found myself at forty-four 86 00:06:29,115 --> 00:06:35,650 in, in, well, forty-three really, but complete burnout in every area 87 00:06:35,715 --> 00:06:42,240 of my life with zero understanding of what I needed to do to feel better. 88 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,150 Like, I was in profound darkness. 89 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:49,950 And so that's, that's what got me here, was learning how to 90 00:06:49,950 --> 00:06:51,420 get myself outta that darkness. 91 00:06:51,960 --> 00:07:00,300 Let's go back to the early part of your life again, because a lot of that toxic 92 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:10,890 family behavior, it definitely had a big impact with your social environment. 93 00:07:11,669 --> 00:07:20,580 So that impact, how did it make you do in school and what was that association 94 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:28,680 like crossing over into, out of, out of home and into your social life? 95 00:07:29,460 --> 00:07:32,789 Um, man, that is a really good question. 96 00:07:33,090 --> 00:07:33,210 I was, 97 00:07:36,315 --> 00:07:40,860 I guess the best way to say this, for me, I felt, in hindsight, this 98 00:07:40,860 --> 00:07:45,030 is the, the verbiage I would use, I was really stunted socially. 99 00:07:45,030 --> 00:07:49,080 Like I, I really, I was awkward. 100 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:54,690 Um, I'm a Gemini and have a lot of fire in my, in myself, so like, 101 00:07:55,110 --> 00:08:00,840 I was outgoing, but almost like in the most uncoordinated way. 102 00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:04,320 I was desperate for approval and acceptance. 103 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,310 And so I just did a lot of really weird stuff like, actually the first 104 00:08:09,340 --> 00:08:13,330 chapter in my first book is all about all the weird stuff I did. 105 00:08:13,359 --> 00:08:18,280 Like, because I can laugh at it, but like literally, I was a weird kid. 106 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,930 I did the weirdest stuff. 107 00:08:19,930 --> 00:08:26,289 And I mean, up until high school, well, after about seventh or eighth 108 00:08:26,289 --> 00:08:30,700 grade, I was, uh, probably seventh, I, I just was, I was so socially 109 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:34,329 awkward and a lot of masking. 110 00:08:34,329 --> 00:08:39,720 I remember just trying to like fit someone else on for size, like just 111 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,280 taking other people's personality traits and like, actually the only reason I'm 112 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,850 as funny as I am, and I'm being dead serious, is 'cause my older brother 113 00:08:47,850 --> 00:08:50,580 was hilarious and we loved comedy. 114 00:08:50,580 --> 00:08:56,280 And, and I watched him, and I studied him, and I saw the 115 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,410 way people magnetized to him. 116 00:08:58,410 --> 00:09:01,780 And he was, he was, he had such a good personality. 117 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,599 And so I would steal from him, I would steal from Jim Carrey 118 00:09:06,599 --> 00:09:09,540 on, um, what was that show? 119 00:09:09,540 --> 00:09:10,650 In Living Color. 120 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,230 You know, like I, I would just take these pieces of, of people's 121 00:09:14,230 --> 00:09:17,130 personalities and just like mask in them. 122 00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:24,870 I did not know how to be an individual or who I was until, honestly, probably, 123 00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:26,730 like it started in high school. 124 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:31,829 But once my dad died, I mean, very sobering and somber obviously. 125 00:09:31,829 --> 00:09:36,245 So you kind of start to get your understanding of what's important and 126 00:09:36,245 --> 00:09:40,175 what's not and whatever and I started to kind of develop a self at that time. 127 00:09:40,175 --> 00:09:46,115 But man, I, and, and as far as learning went, I was, I had 128 00:09:46,115 --> 00:09:47,824 so much struggle in school. 129 00:09:47,824 --> 00:09:49,265 I had so, so much struggle. 130 00:09:49,505 --> 00:09:52,385 I mean, I still have yet to be diagnosed with ADHD 'cause 131 00:09:52,385 --> 00:09:53,795 I've never pursued a diagnosis. 132 00:09:53,795 --> 00:09:56,074 But I have zero doubt I have that. 133 00:09:56,344 --> 00:10:01,055 I have zero doubt that I had major trauma brain that just did not, I mean, 134 00:10:01,055 --> 00:10:07,140 I remember having so much trouble just, just attuning into the environment. 135 00:10:07,140 --> 00:10:10,110 I was very zoned out all the time. 136 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:13,740 Just kind of, I created little fantasy worlds to live in, to 137 00:10:13,740 --> 00:10:15,120 kind of cope with everything. 138 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:20,010 Um, and, and some of that's a normal, like kid coping, I think, but I 139 00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:21,720 was pretty maladaptive with it. 140 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,310 I mean, I really was. 141 00:10:24,220 --> 00:10:24,680 Yeah. 142 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:33,870 So going into, you know, that high school into college phase, because 143 00:10:34,350 --> 00:10:40,770 you obviously went into college and received your social worker 144 00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:44,940 license, did, was there a difference? 145 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:52,290 Because there's obviously going to be a shift in behavior from that childhood 146 00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:56,010 behavior into more of an adult sense. 147 00:10:56,430 --> 00:11:03,095 Was that sort of a grooming period for your adult life? 148 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:03,270 Okay. 149 00:11:03,270 --> 00:11:09,420 So when I graduated high school, uh, the Casey Family Program had this amazing 150 00:11:09,690 --> 00:11:13,800 scholarship for their youth in care. 151 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:19,470 And they would help provide a portion of your rent, or like 152 00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:21,750 housing outta college, whatever. 153 00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:24,780 They were very, very, very financially supportive. 154 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:29,070 So I moved outta my grandma's house, I turned eighteen in 155 00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:35,130 June, I moved out August 1st and started college two weeks later. 156 00:11:35,580 --> 00:11:39,600 And I went from all the right decisions for all the wrong reasons 157 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,280 as a good girl and the family golden child to complete freedom 158 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,290 to make whatever decision I wanted. 159 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:50,340 And I'm gonna let you know those weren't great decisions for me. 160 00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:55,575 Like just being thrown out into the world, like all of a sudden, like you've never 161 00:11:55,575 --> 00:11:59,745 had an ounce of freedom in your life 'cause my grandma was very controlling, 162 00:12:00,165 --> 00:12:04,695 to now, like, as long as she don't find out, like, baby, you can do what you want. 163 00:12:04,695 --> 00:12:06,105 And I did what I wanted, okay? 164 00:12:06,435 --> 00:12:09,885 So I did go to school for about three weeks and then dropped 165 00:12:09,945 --> 00:12:11,985 out without dropping my classes. 166 00:12:12,135 --> 00:12:15,705 Uh, I did that two times, two semesters. 167 00:12:16,035 --> 00:12:18,405 So I went, dropped out within three weeks. 168 00:12:18,405 --> 00:12:20,625 Casey family was like, We are so disappointed in you. 169 00:12:20,625 --> 00:12:22,455 And I was like, I'm pretty disappointed in me too. 170 00:12:22,695 --> 00:12:23,355 Sorry about you. 171 00:12:23,925 --> 00:12:25,425 And then I took a semester off. 172 00:12:26,325 --> 00:12:34,485 And then during that semester off, met my ex-husband, moved in immediately. 173 00:12:35,085 --> 00:12:36,255 Real healthy stuff there. 174 00:12:37,035 --> 00:12:38,985 Married him 'cause I lost my virginity to him. 175 00:12:39,585 --> 00:12:42,525 And then, um, 'cause that's what grandma said you had to do, you're 176 00:12:42,525 --> 00:12:44,475 absolved of the sin if you marry them. 177 00:12:44,475 --> 00:12:46,365 So we were all good there, don't worry. 178 00:12:46,485 --> 00:12:47,895 We were righteous, got married. 179 00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:51,975 Um, and then I, I did the same exact thing again. 180 00:12:52,185 --> 00:12:55,095 Went to school, made it longer in the semester, about three fourths, 181 00:12:55,095 --> 00:12:57,195 and then I was done, dropped again. 182 00:12:58,215 --> 00:13:00,105 Got more F's on my transcript. 183 00:13:00,585 --> 00:13:05,445 And then I took, um, one semester off and 184 00:13:05,445 --> 00:13:08,505 then I went back and, and started getting serious. 185 00:13:08,505 --> 00:13:13,454 And I only made it a couple semesters because 9/11 happened 186 00:13:13,545 --> 00:13:17,865 and my schizophrenic brother was in New York and we didn't know. 187 00:13:18,135 --> 00:13:24,615 We got a call from Bellevue Hospital, um, which is a major psychiatric unit 188 00:13:24,615 --> 00:13:29,115 there, uh, but right there in Manhattan, where they said, this was September 189 00:13:29,115 --> 00:13:34,035 12th, and they said, Yo, this is so and so from Bellevue, um, your brother 190 00:13:34,665 --> 00:13:36,915 is here in our psychiatric facility. 191 00:13:36,915 --> 00:13:39,375 He wandered in here on September 10th. 192 00:13:40,335 --> 00:13:42,555 We live in Oklahoma for reference, okay? 193 00:13:43,365 --> 00:13:46,455 He wandered in here on September 10th asking for a cigarette, 194 00:13:46,575 --> 00:13:49,125 and we 50 through 50'd him. 195 00:13:49,125 --> 00:13:52,050 I mean, we put, we, we admitted him against his will because 196 00:13:52,050 --> 00:13:53,760 he was delusional and whatever. 197 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,719 And then September 11th happened, like the thought of like, the fact 198 00:13:57,719 --> 00:14:01,680 that he could have been dead in New York City and we never would've known 199 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,140 because we had no idea he was there. 200 00:14:04,349 --> 00:14:08,459 We had checked on him in his apartment, my grandma went over there, he, she, he 201 00:14:08,459 --> 00:14:11,370 wasn't there when she went to check, and then boom, this is the next call we get. 202 00:14:11,699 --> 00:14:16,695 And I understand what was happening inside of me now, but at the time 203 00:14:16,695 --> 00:14:20,985 I didn't understand why that jacked me up so much between that and my 204 00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:25,575 mom's incarceration, um, I was like, I gotta take a little time off. 205 00:14:25,575 --> 00:14:30,525 So I did, and then I got pregnant on purpose, but because, you know, 206 00:14:30,525 --> 00:14:33,645 twenty-two year olds should absolutely get pregnant on purpose, okay? 207 00:14:34,185 --> 00:14:40,305 Um, but like, I mean, unhealed really, whatever, twenty-two year olds. 208 00:14:40,305 --> 00:14:43,155 I'm saying, for me, it wasn't the smartest decision, do you boo? 209 00:14:43,214 --> 00:14:48,015 But, um, and then I got, after I had him, I just got super, super serious about 210 00:14:48,015 --> 00:14:50,474 it, and I was a different person then. 211 00:14:50,655 --> 00:14:52,724 First of all, I learned that I could learn. 212 00:14:52,724 --> 00:14:56,564 I, I could take in information, remember it, and, and I was smart. 213 00:14:56,564 --> 00:14:59,954 Like I remember the first semester making a four point, that I was 214 00:14:59,959 --> 00:15:05,565 like, I'm not even just average, like I'm, I'm intelligent, you know? 215 00:15:05,775 --> 00:15:09,195 Because I really, I, I super thought I was dumb because I did have a 216 00:15:09,195 --> 00:15:13,230 very hard time learning math and that didn't change for some years. 217 00:15:13,470 --> 00:15:16,650 My brain had to fully develop before I could learn math. 218 00:15:16,650 --> 00:15:17,460 I mean, truthfully. 219 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,700 But, um, other than that, like I'm, I'm a smart gal. I, but I 220 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:22,260 didn't see it that way at all. 221 00:15:22,410 --> 00:15:26,070 So I really struggled up until I put my mind to it. 222 00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:29,985 Like, I was like, No, I'm, I, I'm getting this degree, like 223 00:15:29,985 --> 00:15:31,365 I don't care what I have to do. 224 00:15:31,365 --> 00:15:32,025 I'm getting this. 225 00:15:32,025 --> 00:15:37,215 And I wanted to show my kids, my parents, my grandma, my 226 00:15:37,215 --> 00:15:39,165 family, like this is possible. 227 00:15:39,165 --> 00:15:43,875 And I was the first in my entire, okay, I always forget this 'cause I don't, I don't 228 00:15:43,875 --> 00:15:46,485 think about my dad's family as my family. 229 00:15:46,485 --> 00:15:50,655 I don't know why, they're not who I was like predominantly raised around. 230 00:15:50,805 --> 00:15:54,135 So to be fair, cousins on my dad's side did graduate before 231 00:15:54,135 --> 00:15:55,275 me, so blah, blah, blah. 232 00:15:55,665 --> 00:15:58,275 I never wanna like say anything, uh, incorrectly there. 233 00:15:58,275 --> 00:16:02,715 But in my family, what I consider to be my family, I was the first. 234 00:16:02,715 --> 00:16:07,395 And so, I mean, I was actually only about the sixth to graduate 235 00:16:07,395 --> 00:16:08,685 high school in my family. 236 00:16:08,715 --> 00:16:13,810 And for reference, I have like nineteen cousins. 237 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:18,280 So like, not, not, not all of them graduated, you know? 238 00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:21,310 Very interesting. 239 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:29,740 You know, so that part of life is one of those, it, it's exciting 240 00:16:29,770 --> 00:16:31,750 and degrading at the same time. 241 00:16:33,175 --> 00:16:34,435 And until, 242 00:16:36,055 --> 00:16:37,990 Oh God, it'll beat you down, won't it? 243 00:16:39,214 --> 00:16:39,810 It will. 244 00:16:40,770 --> 00:16:43,650 So it, it's very exciting. 245 00:16:43,890 --> 00:16:44,520 And 246 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:55,290 at one point, reality hits and you realize, I've, I've gotta clean myself up. 247 00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:57,000 What was that moment like for you? 248 00:16:58,319 --> 00:17:08,310 You know, I think it was actually a lot of moments like when I was 249 00:17:08,430 --> 00:17:13,560 dropping out that first semester, I remember like, yes, there was so much 250 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:19,560 shame and, and guilt and just, uh, an overall yuckiness about the experience. 251 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:21,300 But I don't know. 252 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:26,130 I had, I think, man, I really think I must have had some sort of connection 253 00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:31,590 with like a higher version of me because I was very good, oddly, at 254 00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:37,140 soothing myself over that situation and being like, This happens, you know? 255 00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:41,010 Like you just, you, you weren't ready and it's okay. 256 00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:43,950 Like, 'cause I didn't have anyone else telling me that, I'll tell you that much. 257 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:45,390 Everyone was pretty disappointed. 258 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:49,470 Why is it a surprise that the person who just graduated high 259 00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:55,035 school with a 1.7, didn't do well? 260 00:17:55,305 --> 00:17:59,355 Being thrown to the wolves, going to college for the first time. 261 00:17:59,565 --> 00:18:03,735 Granted, everybody begged me to not make the decision to move out on my 262 00:18:03,825 --> 00:18:04,905 own and dah, dah, dah, I get that. 263 00:18:05,175 --> 00:18:07,545 But like, I had to get outta that house, first of all. 264 00:18:08,265 --> 00:18:13,515 But like, to be fair, I mean, it, it was fairly obvious that 265 00:18:13,515 --> 00:18:15,525 wasn't gonna go well at 1.7. 266 00:18:16,530 --> 00:18:17,280 Not even a two point. 267 00:18:17,370 --> 00:18:18,360 Yeah, 1.7. 268 00:18:18,899 --> 00:18:22,949 And so, you know, I, I don't know, I just kinda, I had a belief 269 00:18:22,949 --> 00:18:25,110 in myself, like, I really did. 270 00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:28,020 And I don't know where it came from 'cause I didn't know I was smart. 271 00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:31,305 And so I just, it was part of my purpose. 272 00:18:31,305 --> 00:18:36,165 Like I was, I knew that I had this purpose instilled in me at a very young age. 273 00:18:36,495 --> 00:18:40,185 And once I decided, I knew I was gonna be in the counseling field, 274 00:18:40,425 --> 00:18:43,245 but I didn't know which degree path I would take or whatever. 275 00:18:43,395 --> 00:18:47,825 But once I decided on the degree path, it was just a matter of when. 276 00:18:48,325 --> 00:18:50,175 It, it was never a matter of if. 277 00:18:50,175 --> 00:18:54,045 Like I, I knew, I don't know, I just was really encouraging of myself. 278 00:18:54,295 --> 00:18:56,545 Even when I did it a second time, I was like, You know what? 279 00:18:56,965 --> 00:18:58,285 Okay, baby, still not your time. 280 00:18:58,285 --> 00:18:58,855 Still not your time. 281 00:18:58,855 --> 00:19:00,895 It's okay, it's okay, we'll do it again later. 282 00:19:01,255 --> 00:19:01,735 It's all right. 283 00:19:02,095 --> 00:19:06,780 I mean, and I think too, like, you know how financial aid will make 284 00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:10,170 you pay for your own schooling for a little bit after you mess up a 285 00:19:10,170 --> 00:19:11,970 couple times and things like that. 286 00:19:12,210 --> 00:19:14,640 You know, it's just a whole combination of things of like, all right, baby, 287 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,590 we've got to, got to lock in here. 288 00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:22,050 But I don't, I never doubted that I would eventually, that's the weird thing. 289 00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:25,440 So I just kind of, I got more and more mature, you know? 290 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,650 I started to learn how to, I've always been a little chaos, you know? 291 00:19:29,534 --> 00:19:35,475 And I kind of started to learn how to form a system, uh, and, and man, with ADHD, 292 00:19:35,685 --> 00:19:42,314 again, I don't have a diagnosis, but you know, um, energetic cycles are a thing. 293 00:19:42,314 --> 00:19:44,834 And learning how to prioritize and all of the things. 294 00:19:44,834 --> 00:19:47,925 So it was just a matter of putting some pieces together in my brain 295 00:19:47,955 --> 00:19:51,414 to get a little more success, but I never doubted I would do it. 296 00:19:51,414 --> 00:19:52,955 I don't know, call me crazy. 297 00:19:54,074 --> 00:19:54,465 Yeah. 298 00:19:55,425 --> 00:20:00,375 You know, the, the thing that really comes to mind is the crab in the 299 00:20:00,435 --> 00:20:03,564 bucket syndrome that we deal with. 300 00:20:03,564 --> 00:20:12,405 A lot of our peers, when we're down in a situation, they wanna keep us there. 301 00:20:12,705 --> 00:20:19,334 And we have to recognize the beauty within ourself, the love of ourself, 302 00:20:19,334 --> 00:20:24,855 and recognize I'm worth something and I have something to give. 303 00:20:25,635 --> 00:20:31,245 You started a podcast, I, I started a podcast because I 304 00:20:31,245 --> 00:20:33,495 was so mad and disoriented. 305 00:20:33,495 --> 00:20:38,804 I couldn't communicate effectively and I needed healing, so I 306 00:20:38,804 --> 00:20:40,935 wanted something desperately. 307 00:20:42,075 --> 00:20:47,655 Starting that podcast was the best decision, outside 308 00:20:47,655 --> 00:20:50,985 of my marriage, of my life. 309 00:20:51,165 --> 00:20:57,405 And this, this really brought new perspective into my life. 310 00:20:57,405 --> 00:21:03,525 It, it brought other voices that, I needed to challenge myself. 311 00:21:03,795 --> 00:21:11,445 I need to, needed to understand what, what do I think and why do I think that? 312 00:21:11,775 --> 00:21:18,375 Digging into that deep, dark self is really the driving force 313 00:21:18,764 --> 00:21:22,095 behind the Dead America Podcast. 314 00:21:22,455 --> 00:21:29,910 We all kind of feel that deadness inside and we all know there's something 315 00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:32,910 better than feeling this deadness. 316 00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:36,960 This is a journey that you've taken also. 317 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:43,170 And what you are doing now is you're enlightening, you're having conversation, 318 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:46,500 and it's so uplifting in many ways. 319 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:51,360 How does that make you feel and what, what's your thoughts 320 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,960 about therapy as podcasting? 321 00:21:56,945 --> 00:22:05,745 Well, um, first I would say, Podcasting has really changed 322 00:22:05,745 --> 00:22:07,784 my life for the same reason. 323 00:22:08,264 --> 00:22:12,645 Um, it was a podcast guest that introduced me to the book 324 00:22:12,645 --> 00:22:14,085 that changed everything for me. 325 00:22:14,085 --> 00:22:18,645 A book called The Finding Peace Workbook by Troy Love on Amazon for 326 00:22:18,645 --> 00:22:20,264 like twenty-five bucks, it's worth it. 327 00:22:20,385 --> 00:22:25,575 Um, it really broke shame down into different archetypes and, and helped me 328 00:22:25,575 --> 00:22:27,524 understand what was happening in my brain. 329 00:22:27,524 --> 00:22:30,325 And so that was, that was a game changer. 330 00:22:30,325 --> 00:22:33,535 But more than that, I think I felt silenced my whole life. 331 00:22:34,465 --> 00:22:38,365 Some, because I wasn't allowed to express feelings, others, 332 00:22:38,365 --> 00:22:40,855 because I was so afraid to be me. 333 00:22:41,005 --> 00:22:45,085 And so I really wrote more than anything because I could craft 334 00:22:45,085 --> 00:22:46,165 a perfect sentence, you know? 335 00:22:47,625 --> 00:22:53,325 Um, podcasting's allowed me to become a lot more comfortable with speaking my 336 00:22:53,325 --> 00:22:55,605 truth instead of writing it perfectly. 337 00:22:55,605 --> 00:22:58,845 I'm so much more okay with being messy with things, you know? 338 00:22:58,845 --> 00:23:00,945 Like just really imperfect. 339 00:23:00,945 --> 00:23:06,975 And I've, actually, I truly have branded my show around being a no frills podcast. 340 00:23:07,610 --> 00:23:11,660 Totally authentic, raw, real, pretty unedited. 341 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:16,820 You know, like I only edit very, like the beginning, like when I'm sitting 342 00:23:16,820 --> 00:23:18,950 there watching TikTok before they pop on. 343 00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:22,130 You know, like very few edits happen on my show. 344 00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:28,130 And, um, it, it really, it's helped me so much to step into my own authority 345 00:23:28,130 --> 00:23:30,020 and really embody my own light. 346 00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:34,320 But also like I'm meeting thought leaders, you know? 347 00:23:34,495 --> 00:23:37,795 So like, they're, again, like you said, they're changing my paradigm, 348 00:23:37,795 --> 00:23:40,915 they're changing, they're helping me grow as a human. 349 00:23:40,915 --> 00:23:44,965 They offer free services to me too like, and I take 'em up on it. 350 00:23:45,265 --> 00:23:49,595 I had a, uh, a guest, Josie Dumond, love her so much. 351 00:23:49,625 --> 00:23:53,125 She's, oh God, I think she's a mindset coach and some other things. 352 00:23:53,125 --> 00:23:53,725 She's amazing. 353 00:23:53,725 --> 00:23:54,595 She's in the UK. 354 00:23:54,955 --> 00:23:59,940 But, um, she offered a free coaching session for having her on as a guest. 355 00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:01,500 Well, I'm gonna take you up on that. 356 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:02,550 Oh, change my life. 357 00:24:02,730 --> 00:24:06,120 She taught me how to get into the energy I wanna be in anytime I'm not. 358 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,730 Like I, that's life altering information and I got it just because I talked to her. 359 00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:16,110 And, and it provides this opportunity for conversations that would probably 360 00:24:16,110 --> 00:24:17,385 never otherwise have happened. 361 00:24:17,385 --> 00:24:23,460 'Cause I'm pretty shy as, as outgoing as I can be and whatever, initiating 362 00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:25,920 conversation, I don't want to at all. 363 00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:27,570 Um, unless it's this. 364 00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:30,895 Like, I love deep conversations, but I'm not gonna go and 365 00:24:30,895 --> 00:24:31,915 make small talk with people. 366 00:24:31,915 --> 00:24:32,875 I've always hated it. 367 00:24:33,085 --> 00:24:34,645 For a long time, I forced it. 368 00:24:34,645 --> 00:24:37,505 And I was just like, Go be funny, go be the center of attention, blah, 369 00:24:37,505 --> 00:24:38,715 blah, blah, you know, do things. 370 00:24:38,785 --> 00:24:40,675 I hated it, I don't like it. 371 00:24:40,675 --> 00:24:45,595 And so now I'm just really committed to whatever I feel in the moment, I will do. 372 00:24:46,105 --> 00:24:48,715 But in terms of therapy on the show, you know, that's not, like 373 00:24:48,715 --> 00:24:57,240 it's really, it, it's more like my clients get the same exact version 374 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,210 of me that my podcast guests do. 375 00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:06,210 So I don't, like, I'm bringing all these industry leaders on and listening, 376 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,490 learning, I'm sharing my own learning, and growth, and whatever. 377 00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:15,990 And, and then I take that information to clients sometimes and be 378 00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:17,970 like, Hey, I had this lady on. 379 00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:20,879 Sometimes I'll send them the raw, like, video of it because I'm like, 380 00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:23,460 This won't air for a little bit, but you gotta see this, you know? 381 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,870 And so, uh, it all goes hand in hand really well because A, 382 00:25:27,870 --> 00:25:30,120 I get to talk, people listen. 383 00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:31,980 Hello, that's a beautiful thing. 384 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,120 As somebody who never felt like I was seen or heard as a child, 385 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,110 or even in early adulthood, like, ah, they listen to my advice. 386 00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:40,830 They take it. 387 00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:41,880 Like, oh my God. 388 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,090 And so like, it's still all so meaningful to me, you know? 389 00:25:47,445 --> 00:25:48,075 Yeah. 390 00:25:48,315 --> 00:25:51,735 Yeah, and it really can uplift spirits. 391 00:25:51,915 --> 00:25:57,765 The big fascinating thing I find is you never know who you're helping 392 00:25:58,125 --> 00:26:00,315 and you never know who's watching. 393 00:26:00,375 --> 00:26:07,215 And those industry leaders, they, they really do watch and they, they are 394 00:26:07,215 --> 00:26:14,190 interested in your growth and they anticipate what you are going to do next. 395 00:26:14,370 --> 00:26:21,130 And that, that really helps drive the incentive to produce better podcasts 396 00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:24,300 and have better flowing content. 397 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:26,100 And it's okay to mess up. 398 00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:30,600 Like earlier on our conversation, I had the mic muted. 399 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,275 You know, it's, it's one of those things and it's okay. 400 00:26:35,115 --> 00:26:43,065 Because what you're here to do is foster curiosity and that curiosity 401 00:26:43,335 --> 00:26:45,495 brings growth in all of us. 402 00:26:45,795 --> 00:26:50,505 And that's really truly the fascinating thing I find behind podcasting. 403 00:26:52,125 --> 00:26:52,785 Yeah. 404 00:26:53,055 --> 00:26:57,435 Especially like, I don't know what, about, like anybody else, but I think, 405 00:26:57,435 --> 00:27:03,255 for me, I guess I don't really go into any conversation with any expectations 406 00:27:03,315 --> 00:27:07,425 other than to feel that light afterwards. 407 00:27:07,425 --> 00:27:11,385 'Cause like I feel so good after having one of these conversations, whether I'm 408 00:27:11,385 --> 00:27:14,025 on someone else's show or they're on mine. 409 00:27:14,235 --> 00:27:18,555 Like the synergy, like all of it, it's just so good. 410 00:27:18,555 --> 00:27:24,135 And I feel energized, and creative, and loving. 411 00:27:24,225 --> 00:27:29,760 You know, like actually sometimes I'll get so much dopamine from a conversation 412 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,230 that I have to like chill for a little bit to like come back to baseline because 413 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:37,710 you can have a really fast crash after a good conversation 'cause you don't 414 00:27:37,710 --> 00:27:40,710 know what to do with yourself with all the chemicals that are floating around. 415 00:27:41,070 --> 00:27:44,100 It's been a learning curve to kind of understand that and how to 416 00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:46,140 take care of yourself after that. 417 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:47,640 That's right. 418 00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:51,840 You know, and also the anticipation. 419 00:27:52,365 --> 00:27:55,965 You have to learn to control anticipation. 420 00:27:56,205 --> 00:28:00,045 What could happen because of this, and what, you know, the excitement, 421 00:28:00,045 --> 00:28:06,165 like you said, dopamine rush can really influence your thought for 422 00:28:06,165 --> 00:28:08,475 a long time after a great episode. 423 00:28:09,435 --> 00:28:14,805 And, and I, I have found that crash to be one of those things. 424 00:28:14,895 --> 00:28:21,600 A host really needs to learn to just, hey, it is what it is and I, 425 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,760 I'm looking forward to the next one. 426 00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:26,940 Instead of hanging on to what just happened. 427 00:28:27,210 --> 00:28:29,040 You just gotta go take you a nap. 428 00:28:30,285 --> 00:28:31,125 Yeah, exactly. 429 00:28:31,125 --> 00:28:34,035 But I mean, I started to recognize chemical depletion 430 00:28:34,035 --> 00:28:35,475 for what it is, you know? 431 00:28:35,565 --> 00:28:39,375 And actually that's what helped me work through the fact that I used to 432 00:28:39,555 --> 00:28:44,865 self-sabotage by spending money that I didn't necessarily need to spend all the 433 00:28:44,865 --> 00:28:47,595 time, uh, because of chemical depletion. 434 00:28:47,625 --> 00:28:51,885 Because I, I felt it after something and I was like, Ooh. 435 00:28:52,125 --> 00:28:54,714 Because I was like, what do I do with this energy? 436 00:28:54,765 --> 00:28:55,795 What do I do with this energy? 437 00:28:55,815 --> 00:28:57,195 And then I had no energy. 438 00:28:57,195 --> 00:28:58,905 And I was like, You know what? 439 00:28:58,905 --> 00:29:04,335 This is when I usually feel bored and then the narrative when I'm bored is, you're 440 00:29:04,335 --> 00:29:06,975 bored and lonely 'cause nobody likes you. 441 00:29:07,125 --> 00:29:08,685 Nobody wants to be around you. 442 00:29:08,955 --> 00:29:14,205 And it really, like, it was after a dopamine like crash to chemical 443 00:29:14,205 --> 00:29:15,735 depletion that I put that together. 444 00:29:15,735 --> 00:29:17,895 And I was like, Now I know why I do that. 445 00:29:17,895 --> 00:29:18,615 And I stopped. 446 00:29:18,675 --> 00:29:22,365 Like I just stopped doing it 'cause I knew that was attached to a 447 00:29:22,365 --> 00:29:24,165 narrative that wasn't true, you know? 448 00:29:25,245 --> 00:29:25,635 Yeah. 449 00:29:26,055 --> 00:29:30,045 Yeah, and it's exciting when you actually find that trigger point 450 00:29:30,105 --> 00:29:32,625 and you can actually address it. 451 00:29:33,165 --> 00:29:37,365 Finally, once in your life you can, Oh wow. 452 00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:39,465 That's what that is. 453 00:29:39,915 --> 00:29:48,105 So it, it is the whole learning experience that you can get surrounding these 454 00:29:48,105 --> 00:29:55,335 podcasts and more so what you can teach others that are listening to the podcast. 455 00:29:55,815 --> 00:29:57,835 This is what you're here for, Malisa. 456 00:29:57,855 --> 00:30:05,055 So could you go through what your services are, how you help people, and 457 00:30:05,415 --> 00:30:14,085 also, you know, how they can get ahold of you and get in touch and work with you? 458 00:30:15,165 --> 00:30:15,795 Yeah. 459 00:30:16,545 --> 00:30:21,255 So, um, I've kind of closed the books for traditional therapy, 460 00:30:21,255 --> 00:30:23,295 like as a one-on-one recurring. 461 00:30:23,385 --> 00:30:27,465 Um, I'm maxed out on clients, but what I'm doing is I'm offering 462 00:30:27,495 --> 00:30:30,645 guidance sessions to general public. 463 00:30:30,705 --> 00:30:36,764 Um, I even have a complimentary session if like my other offers are not within 464 00:30:36,764 --> 00:30:41,324 somebody's budget because I am committed to access to mental health care. 465 00:30:42,014 --> 00:30:47,054 Um, but I have, um, just different levels of guidance. 466 00:30:47,054 --> 00:30:53,715 And so what I do is I actually, 'cause I'm a woo woo girl, I actually use astrology. 467 00:30:53,715 --> 00:30:57,645 I'm a baby astrologer, like I'm a student of astrology, but I, I can give 468 00:30:57,645 --> 00:31:01,365 you a general understanding to help support the information I'm giving you. 469 00:31:01,695 --> 00:31:04,095 I also use tarot if people are comfortable with that. 470 00:31:04,125 --> 00:31:07,335 Um, and then just all my background as a therapist. 471 00:31:07,335 --> 00:31:12,314 But really more, just like, I always tell my clients, it's not my LCSW 472 00:31:12,314 --> 00:31:13,875 that makes me really good at this. 473 00:31:13,875 --> 00:31:18,855 It's, it's my own understanding of the human experience and 474 00:31:18,855 --> 00:31:20,175 the things I've gone through. 475 00:31:20,475 --> 00:31:23,790 Like, my education did not teach me anything about this. 476 00:31:23,790 --> 00:31:30,060 So, um, I have the credentials, but it, like, I'm heart and 477 00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:31,919 soul into this, you know? 478 00:31:32,189 --> 00:31:41,580 Um, and so, yeah, uh, uh, easiest way to find me is, empoweredwithmalisahepner.org 479 00:31:41,889 --> 00:31:45,000 or @ malisa.hepner on Instagram. 480 00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:49,050 And that, there's easy links to my link tree to go schedule with me. 481 00:31:49,050 --> 00:31:54,900 But I have varied tiers of the sessions to give people plenty of options. 482 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,950 And trying to figure out how to connect like a pay 483 00:31:59,429 --> 00:32:05,129 situation to it, like a, a PayPal paying for, or Klarna, you know, after 484 00:32:05,129 --> 00:32:09,270 pay, eventually I'll get that set up to where people have those options. 485 00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:14,310 But I'm a one man show a little bit, so just, you know, I slowly add 486 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:16,679 things to the website or whatever. 487 00:32:16,950 --> 00:32:23,850 Um, doing a, doing more public speaking and just kind of sharing my story. 488 00:32:23,910 --> 00:32:28,710 Uh, but also using my framework of, quiet the noise, connect 489 00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:31,320 to self, and embody the light. 490 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,400 That's kind of the message. 491 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,700 And I kind of break those down for people in my talks or workshops. 492 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:42,420 I have, um, a summit coming up on the 31st and it's called The Empowerment Exchange, 493 00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:48,900 and it's me and three other phenomenal people and we are just each giving little 494 00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:51,840 workshops on, on our own little thing. 495 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,899 But basically like how to, how you can fall in love with your life, how 496 00:32:54,899 --> 00:32:58,290 to build up your inner world when the world around you is falling apart, 497 00:32:58,290 --> 00:33:02,669 how to love yourself, how to change the way you think, you know, things like that. 498 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,370 And, um, right now until the 17th, no, we're past that, so, yeah. 499 00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:08,429 Um, 500 00:33:10,814 --> 00:33:16,965 well, right now there is no sell on tickets, but if you, you know, hear 501 00:33:16,965 --> 00:33:20,085 this before the 31st, I don't know when you're planning for this to air, but, 502 00:33:20,325 --> 00:33:23,135 and you want a ticket, you let me know. 503 00:33:23,135 --> 00:33:28,685 I'll, I'll, I'll get you a, a cheaper, uh, I'll get you a code for, for like 75% off. 504 00:33:28,764 --> 00:33:32,190 But, um, yeah, we're just trying to change the world. 505 00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:36,930 So I, I, I actually started The Empowerment Exchange, I picked 506 00:33:36,930 --> 00:33:40,200 these people because of the impact they had on my life when 507 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,640 I met them through my podcast. 508 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,460 And they each do different stuff, like one's a human design expert, one, um, 509 00:33:48,405 --> 00:33:51,375 teaches you how to use music and spirituality. 510 00:33:51,675 --> 00:33:55,245 And that music is spirituality and music is everything. 511 00:33:55,365 --> 00:33:59,925 And then a spirituality coach who talks about the importance of 512 00:33:59,925 --> 00:34:03,645 spirituality, how to like implement some spirituality from the ground up. 513 00:34:03,645 --> 00:34:04,425 You know, things like that. 514 00:34:04,425 --> 00:34:10,034 So we're just different aspects of healing basically, and we're just bringing it all 515 00:34:10,034 --> 00:34:11,925 together for a three hour little summit. 516 00:34:12,014 --> 00:34:16,674 Um, but yeah, that's kind of what I'm doing is just, I, I show the world 517 00:34:16,674 --> 00:34:22,404 on my podcast, through conversations, how to be more vulnerable, how 518 00:34:22,404 --> 00:34:25,915 to show up for yourself, how to be your most authentic self. 519 00:34:26,125 --> 00:34:29,574 Just through conversations I'm just modeling that stuff, you know? 520 00:34:29,574 --> 00:34:33,205 And, and, and people hear about my learning and growth and other 521 00:34:33,205 --> 00:34:36,174 people's learning and growth, and I just feel like hearing people's 522 00:34:36,174 --> 00:34:39,600 story helps you apply it to your life the way you need to, you know? 523 00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:45,990 So, you know, that leads us back to the beginning, be the change 524 00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:48,120 you want to see in the world. 525 00:34:48,810 --> 00:34:53,490 And, and if we live that aspect, it's a wonderful thing. 526 00:34:53,820 --> 00:34:57,060 Malisa, is there anything that we've missed that you'd like 527 00:34:57,060 --> 00:34:58,680 to cover before we end this? 528 00:34:59,220 --> 00:35:00,240 I don't think so. 529 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,750 I, I guess I would just, I would just sum it up again and just, and 530 00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:10,035 just say like, It is, It's not as hard as we're making it out to be. 531 00:35:10,365 --> 00:35:14,955 The reason my show is called Emotionally Unavailable is because we are all 532 00:35:14,955 --> 00:35:19,125 emotionally unavailable until we understand that fact about ourselves. 533 00:35:19,665 --> 00:35:25,215 We can continue the narrative of relationships, or the only place that 534 00:35:25,215 --> 00:35:30,345 attachment, you know, disorders or maladaptive attachment pops up, it's, 535 00:35:30,375 --> 00:35:34,785 it's showing up in every minute of every day of your life until you address it. 536 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:42,569 And, um, I just want people to understand that the key to all 537 00:35:42,569 --> 00:35:48,089 of this really is learning to embrace every ounce of who you are. 538 00:35:48,089 --> 00:35:51,660 And I would just repeat what I said in the beginning, Jamie from Australia taught me 539 00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:55,379 this, That, uh, life is not for healing. 540 00:35:55,379 --> 00:35:58,080 We heal so that we can live life and get the most out of it. 541 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,680 We're here for a very specific experience. 542 00:36:01,950 --> 00:36:04,049 Experience it, love yourself, you know? 543 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,230 Let yourself heal enough to be able to receive all of the 544 00:36:07,230 --> 00:36:08,879 things life has to offer you. 545 00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:11,100 And if you want help with that, reach, reach out. 546 00:36:13,185 --> 00:36:19,065 And, and it's always okay to be who you truly are, don't let 547 00:36:19,065 --> 00:36:21,705 anybody tell you any different. 548 00:36:22,384 --> 00:36:25,845 Malisa, it's been a pleasure speaking with you today. 549 00:36:25,845 --> 00:36:28,455 Thank you for sharing here on the podcast with us. 550 00:36:28,875 --> 00:36:30,944 Thank you for having me, had a great time. 551 00:36:34,035 --> 00:36:35,714 Thank you for joining us today. 552 00:36:36,345 --> 00:36:42,555 If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, 553 00:36:43,335 --> 00:36:49,754 please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another 554 00:36:49,754 --> 00:36:53,145 great episode of the Dead America Podcast. 555 00:36:53,444 --> 00:36:58,995 I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.