Massimo Rigotti: But I try to get people into a five year, which is a big stretch.
A lot of people, which was really wild to me when I started working with
others in my program, is that they don't, most people don't look beyond
the end of the month in a lot of cases.
And that might even be a stretch, you know?
Ed Watters: Today, we have Massimo Rigotti with us.
He is a speaker, an addiction recovery advocate, and he's the author of
Flavors of Confidence, The Sober Method.
Massimo, could you please introduce yourself?
Let people know just a little more about you, please.
Massimo Rigotti: Absolutely.
Thanks for having me today, Ed.
Uh, it's always, uh, great to get out in front of people and, and let
them know more about what I'm doing.
So a little quick background on myself.
I was, uh, born in the middle of the country in Lincoln, Nebraska and,
and had quite an adventurous life that took me throughout this country.
And along the way, I managed to get myself tremendously
addicted to alcohol and cocaine.
Uh, and it eventually took me down with it in a spectacular crash that
left me homeless for sixteen months,
living on the street.
And going from the pinnacle of success to living on the street will really wake you
up with where you are and who you are, and it'll also show you what you're made of.
And when I stood up sober, I recognized that things weren't
exactly how I wanted them to be.
And there had to be more than just life of sobriety.
What else was out there?
You know, I had to find that next calling.
And instead of looking in the rear view mirror like so many people do in, in this
circumstance, I decided that I was gonna put it 100% behind me and look forward.
And I created my own method, which I called Flavors of Confidence.
Which, uh, is about building up yourself and reframe your life so that you're
confident in your, in how you exist and move within your own daily life.
If you have a, a sense of confidence and a sense of worth, your life takes
on a whole new meaning and purpose.
And it is transformative in it's way that it impacts others around you and
your success breeds success around you.
And it's just an uplifting, uh, experience.
Now in, in all of this, I was working with someone who I had met randomly
on a beach and uh, we came together.
Her name was Samantha Thomas, and she was unfortunately tragically murdered
by a drunk driver in August of 2020.
She'd been encouraging me to share what I was doing, but I just kind
of sloughed it off and said, Ah, I'll get around to it someday.
But when that happened, it totally changed my, my purpose in life.
And I wrote the book and I start advocating, uh, the sober method and,
and the tools that I had created for myself, I now share with everyone.
So that's a little bit about me and, and how I got here
and, and why I do what I do.
Ed Watters: I think it's amazing, most of us, it takes tragedy to wake us up.
And it's so alarming when, when you are filled with addictive behaviors,
as any of us, you know, recovering addicts know, you have this personality.
Uh, I was there at nine years old and I, I started walking that.
Yes, it's amazing.
And my uncle got me into Alateen at about thirteen years old and it was amazing.
I, I still, you know, went my own way, did my own thing, it was part of growing up.
But it's alarming how many people are addicted to substances.
What, what was the most devastating part of your awakening period?
Massimo Rigotti: I think the most challenging thing for me to work
through was just the large wake of destruction I had left behind
me and not realized just how many lives I touched in a negative way.
I, I was, uh, successful.
I, I, I guess a lot of people classify this as a, a functioning alcoholic.
Uh, so there were many people that maybe knew I drank a little bit, but they
didn't actually recognize or realize the fact that I was a, a true addict,
uh, not only to alcohol, but to drugs.
And so I masked it pretty well because it was succeed at all costs, get
outta my way, I'm gonna destroy you, that was my kind of attitude in life.
And after I was completely humbled by beginning to forage for food and not have
a roof over my head, I began to look at life in an entirely different way and
recognize, wow, I did a lot of bad things.
Not really in, in a sense, I didn't really think that, that I had really hurt anyone.
I didn't, you know, physically harm anyone, but I said a lot of
things and I did a lot of things that I could have done better.
And that was troubling to me.
That, that was the, probably the most troubling thing in my overall awakening
was realizing that I had to go back and fix a lot of, you know, put right
what I once put wrong, so to speak.
Ed Watters: Yeah.
I, I think a lot of people, it's that guilt syndrome that we deal with.
And, and fixing that, you know, that trash in our life,
that's a big part of recovery.
Because even if you're going to AA and you're trying to do the program, you know,
I witnessed so many alcoholics, and I, I was part of it, you know, we'd go to
a meeting and then, you know, after the meeting, we'd meet at the bar and have a
drink and talk about what we discussed.
You know, so waking up and owning yourself is a big part of this
journey and it's about fixing that negative self behavior, really.
Uh, and that's owning up to your behaviors, being truthful with yourself,
and not only owning up to it, but walking the truth into your life.
That's hard to do.
So, so talk about the process with us.
Massimo Rigotti: Well, I'm glad that you brought up something that happened
in your AA meetings because it's something that happened in mine as
well and that was troubling for me.
I like, we'd walk out into the parking lot and then suddenly it's like,
you guys want to go get a drink?
I'm like, Whoa, whoa.
Wait a second, this is completely against what I just sat through.
Um, yeah.
So, uh, you know, the, the, I think part of the problem is that in the traditional,
uh, group setting like this, is that we'd look in the rear view mirror.
And, and so we tend to have this, uh, sort of wallowing in the past, you know,
this happened to me, this happened to me.
Well, you start talking about those things all the time, and I tell
you what, in AA meetings, I'd start like, man, that was kind of fun.
I remember when that happened.
Man, you know, and you don't want that.
I mean, so this is, we also have another challenge here, and then I'll answer
your question, is that the challenge that we have is that in this particular
small subset of mental health recovery, we are self-affirming a negative.
We stand up in meetings and we say that we're an alcoholic, we're, I'm
a drug addict, I'm this, I'm that.
We don't do that in any other area of mental health, we always talk
about the strength that we are.
I am better than this, I am greater than this, I am not going
to let this stand in my way.
Why are we doing the opposite in something that is so powerful, like addiction?
So I always encourage, and I don't even, uh, answer a question
like, Are you an alcoholic?
I say, No.
Because I'm not.
I haven't had a drink in nine years.
So I, I don't see myself as that, I see myself as something greater than that.
And that is, that's ultimately what the sober method teaches.
So the step one of sober method, and sober stands for Stoic, Observe,
Behavior, Execute, and Restore,
and it is a continuous improvement plan that works on your life
and your mind in a holistic way.
So the, the beginning step is stoicism, so we're talking about taking a
deep, reflective look at yourself.
And in, in doing that, you're forced to look at some of the hard truths about
yourself to, to understand why you're doing the things that you're doing
and what is truly important to you.
And, and, and so the, the process starts off by, you know,
looking at one fundamental thing.
I always recommend, uh, meditations by Marcus Aurelius is a good starting
point, mainly because the barrier of entry of getting a copy is $0.
So, you know, I don't have anyone saying, Well, how much is that gonna cost me,
you know?
I mean, like, if you really want, you could just Google Marcus Aurelius
quotes and that'd be a good start for you on the internet, right?
Uh, and, and so Marcus Aurelius is a really interesting character
when you think about it.
Here's, is literally the most powerful man on earth 2000 years
ago, looking at himself in his own journal in a very personal way and
realizing his own shortcomings.
And most people in that, with that amount of power would never think,
I am not good enough to do this.
I, I, I'm struggling with this.
Most instead say, I'm the greatest person alive, you know, nobody is better than me.
And so that's very telling.
And if, if he could do that, then we all can do that.
Because certainly most of us are not the most powerful person alive, right?
So as, as you look and reflect on a specific item, uh, that, that Marcus
Aurelius's like pointed out in his own life, like thinking that, uh, you
know, the, something is beneath you.
And you might look at your own life, it's like, did I ever think that
something was beneath my station?
Okay, I can think of three or four things.
Why did I think that?
And then dig into your own mind, what created that belief in your mind?
Oh, well this happened to me when I was four and my dad did this to me.
So then I thought from that point forward that this was the right thing.
And you recognize, Oh, wait a second, that's connected to this other thought
that then later I did this, which caused
me to start treating my friends in this way.
And then I realized that I was hurting them and then I started drinking
because I was, I felt bad about that.
Oh, wow.
I just discovered why I started, I like, I have a trigger.
I just discovered a trigger just by going down this road of self-reflection.
Um, and it's very powerful because we're, we're layered.
We are so layered and, and we forget that everything that we do from the time that
we're very small is a, is, is just laying down a framework that we operate within.
Because we're all, uh, you know, lots of people say, Oh, humans are lazy.
I don't necessarily like calling us lazy, I see humans as optimized for the least
amount of power, you know, consumption.
We want to do, we, we, it's not that we're really lazy, we wanna
have a reserve power source, right?
So your brain just goes, ah, I don't need to work on this.
We, this worked last time, just do it again.
And that is, and so when you frame up something that is negative and you lay
down, uh, these things on top of each other, years after years, after years,
that's why it becomes so difficult to, to tear the house down and rebuild yourself.
Um, that's what this allows you to do though.
Because then you look at that one, and I'm talking, that's just like one minor little
thing that I pointed out right there.
Okay, so now I move forward and how does that impact me in my daily life?
That's the observed step.
So it's like, Well, okay, that impacts me in these different ways.
What would happen if I would change that behavior just a little bit.
And this is like kind of playing it out in your mind.
Like if, and, and testing it and, and what that might look like.
Then you actually, you know, remap that behavior in the behavior
step and, and, and play it out.
Maybe role play it, if you, if you have that ability.
And then you go and you test, that's execute.
So, okay, we're gonna do this differently this time.
And when you have that, uh, ability to test and say, Oh, that worked.
Oh my goodness.
Not only was I able to figure out something that had troubled me
my entire life, I also have now
changed my behavior and I got a different outcome.
Wow.
You know, and so you have this positive affirmation that what you discovered
about yourself and changed about yourself in near real time is going to
have a positive impact on your life.
And then you, if, if, if it doesn't work though, then you go back to the
observe step and go like, Okay, well, that kind of worked, but it didn't work.
And so you kinda like, you know, fiddle around in the kitchen
and make a better omelet.
And then you come out eventually in the restoration step where you,
you reflect back and you think, Who did, who did I negatively impact
with this behavior in my life?
And this is your typical, in a 12 step program, where you'd be like, going back
and, and looking and, and getting the forgiveness and, and so on and so forth.
And this is making amends basically.
And then you start over.
Go back to stoicism, look for something else about yourself, reflect,
and, and it's, it's really wild.
Uh, I'm on my hundred and twenty-nineth pass at this exact moment through my own
system, and it's, it's, it's really great.
Because each time I go back to the beginning, it's like, I feel like
I'm getting into smaller and smaller perfection, improvement of myself.
Uh, I don't even really recognize the person I was a decade ago now.
It, it, it, in reading what I wrote in my journals a decade ago,
I'm like, Who was this person?
Um, it's really wild and it's really cool.
Ed Watters: Yeah.
You know, it's very interesting because that same type of system is true recovery
process from all of those mental and physical barriers that we all face.
So, you know, I'm in my fifty-nineth year of life.
I'm looking at that big six O mark now, and I'm really saying to
myself, You're just now starting to feel what life is about.
Because of the process that you just outlined for us, you know, you've
got to go back and seek each of those disgusting moments in your
life and discover what made you do that and how did you get through it.
You know, it, it's a miracle that we get through some of
the things that we go through.
I've found myself, you know, as a teenager waking up in people's closets.
I, I went to parties and don't even know where I am.
And here I am, middle of the night, waking up from passing out in
these people's bathroom closet.
And how do I get outta here?
And, you know, those odd feelings that we put ourselves through
is part of Learned behavior.
And this subconscious mind that we talk about, we really have to dig in, like you
just explained, to figure out all of that, why we do the dirty things that we do.
And then, that's part of the reflection.
But you, you tout that you always wanna look forward.
And part of looking forward is making a proper plan so we don't
have this piss poor performance.
The seven P principle, my cousin calls it.
He told me proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
And I really look at that now and I say, Wow, that's part of life I never
really experienced, proper planning.
And, and it's true.
If we plan properly and we forget about all of the things that
we want and focus on our actual needs, our life goes a lot better.
What is your take on that Massimo?
Massimo Rigotti: I, I love it.
And, and one of the things that is actually in the execute step of, uh, the
sober method is looking ahead and creating a plan that you're actually following.
And, uh, and I, I personally do it just a little bit differently because
I tend to be a very long-term thinker.
Um, so I have like twenty year goals set.
But I try to get people into a five year, which is a big stretch.
A lot of people, which was really wild to me when I started working with
others in my program, is that they don't, most people don't look beyond
the end of the month in a lot of cases.
And that might even be a stretch, you know?
They're like, Oh, well, I don't even know what I'm gonna do on Friday.
I'm like, it's Wednesday, you know?
So it, it, that was a, that was an awakening for me.
So it, I, I encourage people to look initially two years out.
Where do you want to be in two years?
Okay, now let's divide that out.
Think about that in sections.
In order to get to that goal, what, what would be a logical, I have to
be here at the end of this year?
And then you're like, Okay, that's your one year goal.
Okay, how would I get there?
I gotta divide that in half and I like do this whole divide in half
thing until you're down to, this is what you have to get done this week.
Oh, okay.
And, and then you frame up your life into a big, long series of small, measurable
steps that are going to get you there.
It's kind of like looking at, uh, a, a 1% improvement plan, except
you're doing it with your own life.
You're like, Okay, I have to take these steps this week.
If I complete those, then I'm gonna stay on goal.
The other thing that is really challenging with those that come, I, I think for
most anybody, but especially those with addiction and in recovery, is
giving yourself a little bit of grace.
You may not make every goal that you, you know, set out to have
done by the end of the month.
Well, that's okay.
It's a little bit of a setback.
How are you gonna course correct and, and adjust?
You can still make the six month mark and, and understanding that
things happen and be okay with that.
Uh, I, I think oftentimes those of us that have gone through addiction
recovery is that we get, we get really down on ourselves if any little thing,
just like it can just like knock the house of cards out from under us and,
and then suddenly we're not able to.
And, and that is something that is, really comes from the
strength within the sober method.
And that's why I really like it because you're focusing so deep within yourself
and really reframing your mind.
That as your mind strengthens up, you realize that the little, these, these,
these things that used to be huge, that would be, completely ruin your day.
I mean, I mean, they seem so minute because what you, if you were on path
and you're on target, and you have good planning, you know what your goal is,
then all the little things around you that used to seem huge, are nothing.
They just fall away because you stay focused on that goal.
And if you're, if you're working towards that, it makes, it makes
life in general much more easy.
I think that we spend so much of our time, uh, kind of going in
thirty different directions and, and wondering why we don't get anywhere.
Ed Watters: Yeah.
Well, you know, I tell my wife, When I die, put don't
worry about it on my headstone.
And I really think when you figure that out, all of that garbage goes away.
And you know, it goes into that, Keep it simple, stupid.
And one, one day at a time, one step at a time.
And, and that is the key to a healthy lifestyle.
And it's hard for addicts to put that mindset into place, it, it takes years.
I've, I've, I've watched thousands of addicts and, you know, drunks
just become nothing and die because of cirrhosis of the liver and all of
that because they don't wanna step into that hard place of that shame and
guilt of what we've done in the past.
And it, it's really, it, it really keeps my mind focused more on what
I'm doing here today with you, you know, bettering myself and letting
people know that's watching or listening to us today, It's okay.
You know, just keep it simple.
And, and we're all in this together, whether we like it or not.
So it, it's kinda like the Lord's Prayer, you know, you can only do
so much and, you know, focus on what you can do and let the other go.
It, it's really part of a good, balanced approach to life.
Talk to us about your book and tell people how they can get the book when it's done.
Uh, it, it's, it's a process to write a book.
What got you into the mindset of, Hey, I need to put this into a book
and this is how I'm going to do it.
Massimo Rigotti: You aren't lying.
I think that, uh, I think writing that, my first book was the hardest
thing I've ever done in my life.
I, it, it is tough, it is very tough.
So my first book, uh, is, is Flavors of Confidence and Reflection For Those in
Need, and that book, uh, is my life story.
It is a reflection on my life, how I began, and, and, and my trials,
tribulations, my wild ride to success, my hard, uh, you know, fall to homelessness,
and, and then the dramatic rise back to, honestly, being in better shape in all
aspects of my life than I ever was before.
And that's an amazing thing right there.
Um, that was, that was tough.
And the reason that it was really tough to write this, well, one, um,
the motivation to begin writing this was the, the tragic murder of someone
who was, you know, my rock and, and, and the closest person to me.
And so losing Samantha, you know, being the catalyst for writing this
book, made it so, um, it made it much more emotional than it probably
would've been, uh, otherwise.
Yet the exercise was tremendously cathartic because I'd always
been a very private person.
I didn't really want people to know the inner workings of what was going
on inside my head and how, how I had achieved things that I had achieved.
Um, I didn't really feel like it was anyone's business.
It's just that's my private life and you, you don't need to know anything.
So this was tough.
I had to open myself up in ways that I was even brought up to like, you don't tell
people things about yourself, you know?
I, I don't know what type of family you were, but maybe it's also
generational, but I, that's the, that's the generation that I was in.
It was like, yeah, you just don't do that.
Um, and I'm, I'm ten years behind you, so I'm forty-nine
up for the big five O this year.
So it's, uh, it, it's, it's, uh, it's a milestone birthday is ahead of me.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, And, and, and so at the end of this book, I wrap it up with, with
what I was doing at the time, and this was like a ten step, uh, method.
And it was just what I had been sharing with people that I saw
at AA and it wasn't very refined.
It was what I was doing personally.
Um, yet releasing the book almost immediately showed me, and the book
came out two years ago, March of 23, and almost immediately I was getting feedback.
And as I started working with people that were trying to use it, that it was clunky.
What step am I on?
What am I supposed to do after this?
Um, you know, it just, it just didn't really work well in a larger scenario.
And so I went back to the drawing board and I thought, Okay, how
can I make this easier and, and maybe meld it into something?
And I was like, and what would I call it?
I mean, I can't, I mean, Flavors of Confidence is kind
of clunky, you know, as well.
So I thought, Maybe it's a sober method.
I'm like, Well, surely that's taken by somebody.
There's no way that that can be available in 2023.
But sure enough, it was, So I, I latched onto it right away.
Yeah, I mean, so what do you use to get sober?
The sober Method.
I mean, it totally makes sense, right?
Uh,
uh, and so what I did then is I took my original ten steps
and I like rolled in a couple
steps into one.
Some, you know, like one of the steps, the behavior step, was
always just the behavior step.
It used to be step six, and now it's like step three.
So, um, but it, it made it much easier.
And then I went back to the drawing board and it, it wasn't that much longer.
So in October, end of October of 23, I came out with The Sober Method book.
And that's when I really began working specifically to help others understand
that there are alternatives to AA.
Um, and, and I think that that is so important.
Not everything works for everyone.
And when you, when you have, you know, you're being told that,
Oh, this is the best thing, okay?
And it's the most accepted thing.
So everybody goes to NA or AA believing this is the path.
And if it doesn't work, we're like, Well, I tried everything.
Eh, that makes it so, I, I just so dislike when I hear that.
And that's why I also encourage other ways to get sober that aren't my own
method, because I recognize that, Hey, this might not be the best for you.
But the most important thing to me is that you find yourself and your
sobriety because you're gonna be the best possible person when you do, so.
Ed Watters: Yeah.
Yeah, I like that a lot.
Uh, when, when we discover ourselves, we're just this infinitely stronger
person and, and we can devour the world and move mountains in
ways we never thought possible.
And I'm still learning new things, new ways to evolve into something
better than what I am now.
And that's really what it's about, is evolving and keep
that evolution happening.
We're we're this creature of habit, but we need to be forever learners.
And, and really that means read a book and, you know, get off of, you
know, I love YouTube and it's very informative, but, and I hate reading
books, but we specifically set a time that is intentional for reading now.
And it is increasingly making me a better person because I understand
the world around me better.
And I, I really wanna encourage the watchers and the listeners
today to, you know, read a book.
Start with The Sober Method because you're obviously here because you
wanna hear something about recovery.
And I, I think that's very important.
We, we find ourselves in that group mentality when we go to AA meetings,
like I said before, in the parking lot, we're going to the bar next.
And, and when we put ourselves in an environment of woes me, I'm a drunk,
and yeah, it, it can be very depressive.
And in the wrong mindset, you're gonna just stay right
there in that constant loop.
And that's what we're trying to break is that loop, that
cycle, that addictive behavior.
So, yeah, I, I really encourage people, read a book and find as many methods,
whatever works for you is the best way.
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.
And I, I tell you, I love what you said just now about being a lifelong
learner, that nothing will keep you more youthful than curiosity.
And when, when you don't know something or you see something that's even
remotely interesting to you, ask.
You know, the most amazing things and, and experiences in my life have
been when I saw or noticed somebody doing something and I walked up to
them and was like, that's really cool.
How does this work?
And anybody who's doing their job, oh, they love that.
They would, they love telling you what they do.
Uh, mainly because, and I jokingly say this often, mainly because when they
go home at night, the last thing their wife wants to hear is how work went.
So they're more than happy to tell you about whatever they're doing, right?
Uh,
so I mean, like take advantage of that because then it
might spark something else.
You're like, you know, in that explanation you might learn something
about something else and you're like, Ooh, I wonder how that came to be.
And then you can go down and search that out.
And there's so, you know, there's an infinite amount of
things that you don't know.
And I am in a constant quest to learn what I don't know.
And I can spend the rest of my life and I won't even get close to
understanding most everything, you know?
And so that is, yes, yes, that's totally okay.
The other thing that this does for you, especially if you're struggling with
addiction, it gives you a new addiction.
You can be addicted to learning.
I mean,
Ed Watters: Yeah, that's right.
That, that's so true.
You know, shift the behavior.
Massimo Rigotti: Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't think that we ever truly lose that portion of who we are as addicts.
I don't think it ever truly goes away.
We channel it in different ways, uh, in order to take care of that
need within our, our own mind.
Those that are, that have addiction and struggle with addiction, there
are underlying things going on in your head that are never going to change.
But you learn to reroute these into productive things.
One might argue that I'm addicted to going through The Sober Method time
after time, or that I'm addicted to learning, or that I, you know, like
those are all aspects of utilizing what I really believe is a superpower.
You, if you look at your addictive nature as something that you can
harness as, think of the drive that you might undertake in order
to remain addicted to something.
I think about all the crazy things that I did in order to just get that next drink.
You know, like, oh, I know how I can make some money really fast.
I mean, like, that's creativity.
I mean, like, so if, if you can channel those things into something
productive, imagine what you can do.
It's, it's endless.
It's great.
Ed Watters: That's right.
I, I, I'm with you a hundred percent on that.
So, uh, Massimo, is there anything that we've missed that you wanna
add to our conversation today?
Massimo Rigotti: I, you know, I just would really like to add that there's
no reason to be discouraged with, with where you are in your process of recovery.
That if you're taking the smallest step to recognize the, that you
need to do something and you fall down fifty times trying to stand
up sober, that's totally okay.
I, I, I did the same thing.
I went through three really bad, I'm, I got it.
I got it.
I'm standing up and then completely fell down and destroyed what
I had, I had, I had rebuilt in just a short number of weeks.
It's okay, because I'm okay now.
And the fact that you continue the drive, that's the most important thing.
Take those small measurable steps to, to bettering yourself until one
day you're on the other side of it.
And you'll begin to wonder how was I ever allowing this in my life?
How was I ever allowing myself to not see clearly?
And see the world in a way that is so much more, um, so much more beautiful and so
much more rewarding to, to, uh, experience life without it clouded by substances.
It really is.
I, I, I, I don't know that you ever really truly recognize that
until you get several years sober.
And then you start seeing things that you, you've realized, like you experienced
something that you did when you had been, uh, drunk or high, and you're
like, Wow, this would've been amazing.
And, and, and it really is so cool because it affirms that, you know
what the work, the hard work that I've been doing, It's worth it.
And that's your reward.
And don't give up on yourself.
Every, anything that, that you believe is possible in life is possible
with enough hard work and effort.
And it doesn't have to be like full out, it just needs to be a tiny
bit of effort every single day.
Because consistency will beat the hardest worker every day, that's why
The Tortoise and The Hare story exists.
We always think about that as being like some sort of speed story,
running fast, and it doesn't really have anything to do with that.
If you really break it down,
the tortoise and hare story is just about getting up and doing the bare minimum
every day without ever not doing it as opposed to the hare where, like running
really fast and then like, you know, having fun for five, six days and then
the hare, you know, falls behind again.
And you don't wanna be the hare, you wanna be the tortoise.
It just like slowly moves and slowly gets better until one day you look
back and like, Wow, I beat this.
I won the race.
Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that a lot.
You know, and a lot of it has to do with that mindset.
Where are you in your life?
Who are you around?
And there's this thing called the crab in the bucket syndrome.
Are you around people that want you where they are?
Take a, take a shot right now in your life and figure out, Am I doing this for me or
because I have to be here because of them?
You know, we're all stuck in the bucket, and it is okay to get out.
Uh, I've had a great time speaking with you today, and I would really like to
do this again with you at some point.
Could you let people know how to get ahold of you and work with you?
Massimo Rigotti: Absolutely.
So anyone that is interested in what I do, uh, check out sobermethod.com
or @sobermethod on all of the socials, I post daily content.
If you go to sobermethod.com, you can connect with me, also my own website,
massimorigotti.com, uh, as well.
If you're interested in any private coaching, uh, which I happily do
and enjoy, that's probably the most rewarding thing that I do at the moment.
So, um, thank you Ed, so much for your time.
I really enjoyed it.
And I would love to, uh, do a deeper dive into, uh, some subsections
of what we talked about today.
It's been a real pleasure, uh, speaking with you.
Thank you so much for allowing me to come on your, uh, your podcast
and, and speak to your listeners.
Ed Watters: Massimo, it's been a great, fantastic journey with you today.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way,
please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.