1 00:00:05,670 --> 00:00:08,560 Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. 2 00:00:09,950 --> 00:00:15,969 Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,350 We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,730 To learn, we must challenge what we already understand. 5 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:31,180 The way we do that is through conversation. 6 00:00:32,619 --> 00:00:39,750 Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best 7 00:00:39,910 --> 00:00:42,870 conversations happen with ourselves. 8 00:00:44,210 --> 00:00:51,470 Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something new right now. 9 00:00:55,675 --> 00:00:58,434 Today, we are speaking with Kayla Crane. 10 00:00:58,745 --> 00:01:03,614 She is a licensed marriage family therapist, she is also the 11 00:01:03,625 --> 00:01:06,035 owner of South Denver Therapy. 12 00:01:06,175 --> 00:01:08,385 Kayla, could you please introduce yourself? 13 00:01:08,685 --> 00:01:11,234 Let people know just a little more about you, please. 14 00:01:11,905 --> 00:01:12,115 Kayla Crane: Hi. 15 00:01:12,144 --> 00:01:13,384 Yeah, thanks for having me. 16 00:01:13,904 --> 00:01:17,824 Uh, I am, like you said, a licensed marriage and family therapist. 17 00:01:17,824 --> 00:01:20,128 I specialize in couples and relationships along 18 00:01:22,208 --> 00:01:23,108 with trauma. 19 00:01:23,488 --> 00:01:29,480 I'm trained in a specific trauma modality known as EMDR and I use that with 20 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,810 individuals and sometimes with couples. 21 00:01:33,010 --> 00:01:36,310 Ed Watters: I really want to dive deep into what you 22 00:01:36,330 --> 00:01:39,420 think about the divorce rate. 23 00:01:39,789 --> 00:01:47,600 And what do you think is the leading cause of this high rate of divorce in couples? 24 00:01:48,770 --> 00:01:49,039 Kayla Crane: Yeah. 25 00:01:49,230 --> 00:01:53,770 I mean, it is, uh, it is a high rate these days. 26 00:01:53,770 --> 00:01:57,159 It is, um, fairly common, unfortunately. 27 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:06,495 And what I see is that a lot of times, relationships can be saved, even 28 00:02:06,495 --> 00:02:08,675 when people think that they can't be. 29 00:02:09,075 --> 00:02:14,425 Um, but it takes finding some help and some resources. 30 00:02:15,005 --> 00:02:18,835 Uh, couples therapy really can work, it can be really effective. 31 00:02:19,374 --> 00:02:25,380 Um, you know, it's, communication is what people think of when, 32 00:02:25,450 --> 00:02:30,410 um, they think of relationship issues, and that's a part of it. 33 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:37,289 But, um, really getting to like the underlying meaning of the conflict or what 34 00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:38,950 your partner is trying to communicate. 35 00:02:39,549 --> 00:02:44,329 I think that's a skill that you can learn in couples therapy, 36 00:02:44,579 --> 00:02:46,239 but it doesn't come naturally. 37 00:02:46,570 --> 00:02:54,125 And so I think unless you have, that you are taught to do that, then that's where 38 00:02:54,155 --> 00:03:00,365 relationships, I think, fail sometimes when the partners don't have those skills 39 00:03:00,685 --> 00:03:06,625 to really understand what their partner is looking for or what they're needing. 40 00:03:06,634 --> 00:03:11,884 Those underlying issues that are kind of masked by the surface level fights. 41 00:03:12,990 --> 00:03:13,790 Ed Watters: I like that. 42 00:03:14,220 --> 00:03:19,210 You know, it takes time to build a relationship. 43 00:03:19,420 --> 00:03:25,169 When we jump into a relationship, we don't have an owner's manual, we're 44 00:03:25,180 --> 00:03:30,200 going off of hearsay and what everybody else tells us and what we think. 45 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,945 And when we get into it, it's nothing like that at all. 46 00:03:35,215 --> 00:03:39,235 And it's shocking and alarming to a lot of people. 47 00:03:39,695 --> 00:03:48,204 So, I find that there's always patterns or cycles to arguments 48 00:03:48,204 --> 00:03:51,195 that lead to separation. 49 00:03:52,710 --> 00:03:54,620 What's your take on that? 50 00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:01,089 Do you actually find patterns and cycles repeating themselves over and over? 51 00:04:02,180 --> 00:04:03,400 Kayla Crane: Oh, absolutely. 52 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:12,600 Every couple has a cycle or a dance as people sometimes call it, um, and that's 53 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,720 kind of their communication pattern. 54 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:20,459 And so that's where the communication piece is important, is to be 55 00:04:20,459 --> 00:04:22,749 able to work with those cycles. 56 00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:29,899 But, um, so for example, one of the most common cycles that we see is called 57 00:04:29,909 --> 00:04:36,135 the pursuer/withdrawer, or sometimes people say distancer, um, dynamic. 58 00:04:36,225 --> 00:04:40,635 And so this is the dynamic in my, my marriage, I'm the pursuer 59 00:04:40,675 --> 00:04:42,255 and my husband's the distancer. 60 00:04:42,825 --> 00:04:45,564 So when there's conflict, I pursue. 61 00:04:45,945 --> 00:04:49,265 I want to talk about it, I want to fix it right then. 62 00:04:49,305 --> 00:04:52,964 Um, it gives me anxiety not having, not repairing it. 63 00:04:53,484 --> 00:04:57,355 And he needs some time and space so he distances. 64 00:04:58,025 --> 00:05:03,145 But that causes more anxiety on my end so I tend to pursue more, and 65 00:05:03,145 --> 00:05:07,095 that causes him to distance more and it's like a round and round. 66 00:05:07,164 --> 00:05:12,425 Um, so that one's really common, and there's, you know, 67 00:05:12,465 --> 00:05:14,874 easy tools to work on that. 68 00:05:14,874 --> 00:05:23,395 But if, if partners don't recognize that cycle, then, um, they never, develop 69 00:05:23,395 --> 00:05:26,795 the skill to interrupt the cycle, right? 70 00:05:26,795 --> 00:05:30,305 So that the awareness is the first piece. 71 00:05:30,395 --> 00:05:33,164 Um, because a lot of people just think this is just how it is, 72 00:05:33,164 --> 00:05:34,705 this is how we've always operated. 73 00:05:35,225 --> 00:05:38,994 And so being able to identify this is our cycle, this is something 74 00:05:38,994 --> 00:05:42,475 that we need to address and we need to be able to interrupt. 75 00:05:42,895 --> 00:05:47,965 And then the second step, obviously, is, um, gaining tools to be 76 00:05:47,965 --> 00:05:49,635 able to interrupt that cycle. 77 00:05:52,370 --> 00:05:53,400 Ed Watters: I like that a lot. 78 00:05:53,430 --> 00:05:56,600 You really do need to disrupt that cycle. 79 00:05:56,940 --> 00:06:03,660 Uh, I lived for, heck, at least thirty-five years with that repetitive 80 00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:06,550 cycle and trying to ignore it. 81 00:06:06,610 --> 00:06:10,370 And that's really insane to think about. 82 00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:18,100 But once you figure out, yes, this is a cycle, when you slow your mind down out 83 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:25,210 of the argument phase and you identify, Wow, we've been here so many times before. 84 00:06:25,219 --> 00:06:27,039 Why is this happening? 85 00:06:28,249 --> 00:06:33,469 Then we can actually start saying, Hey, wait, can we not do this again? 86 00:06:34,259 --> 00:06:40,919 And I really think that is the start, identifying those cycles, those patterns. 87 00:06:41,455 --> 00:06:44,095 And then disrupting them like you just said. 88 00:06:44,625 --> 00:06:46,225 It's very interesting. 89 00:06:47,645 --> 00:06:48,095 Kayla Crane: Yeah. 90 00:06:48,155 --> 00:06:57,485 Um, it, if you, um, if you don't develop that ability to interrupt the cycle, 91 00:06:57,695 --> 00:07:03,120 both partners usually just end up, you know, kind of giving up a little bit. 92 00:07:03,170 --> 00:07:11,040 And, um, and, and they don't often come back to, What's the problem? 93 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,780 What are we trying to solve here? 94 00:07:14,089 --> 00:07:19,825 The focus kind of shifts to that, that cycle, right? 95 00:07:19,855 --> 00:07:25,165 And then, um, both partners kind of give up or whatever it is, but they 96 00:07:25,165 --> 00:07:27,485 don't come back to the, the conflict. 97 00:07:27,804 --> 00:07:32,554 And so then the next time there's a conflict, that last 98 00:07:32,554 --> 00:07:34,305 one kind of gets piled on there. 99 00:07:34,345 --> 00:07:38,014 And then I hear that a lot, people say, Every time we fight, 100 00:07:38,134 --> 00:07:40,174 all the past issues come back. 101 00:07:40,274 --> 00:07:42,754 Well, that's because they weren't ever addressed. 102 00:07:43,740 --> 00:07:45,840 Ed Watters: Yes, that's key. 103 00:07:46,020 --> 00:07:47,150 I like that a lot. 104 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:57,520 You know, coming from a family of divorce, my, everyone in my family got divorced. 105 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:04,509 Out of eight siblings, I'm the only one that has made it to the level 106 00:08:04,530 --> 00:08:07,010 I have achieved in my relationship. 107 00:08:07,250 --> 00:08:12,150 And that has not been easy because all of the baggage that I packed 108 00:08:12,580 --> 00:08:18,340 with me from all of the experiences I've witnessed from my parents, my 109 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:22,330 aunts, my uncles, my own siblings. 110 00:08:23,530 --> 00:08:30,345 And it's really about taking that maturity step and saying, It's up 111 00:08:30,375 --> 00:08:39,015 to me to grow a relationship to my standards, not somebody else's standards. 112 00:08:39,304 --> 00:08:43,484 And that's that baggage that we often pack, we're, we're 113 00:08:43,484 --> 00:08:46,574 like expected to be this way. 114 00:08:46,694 --> 00:08:52,084 I don't want to be a divorced person and it doesn't appeal to me. 115 00:08:52,084 --> 00:08:58,690 So really stepping up and taking the responsibility is key. 116 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:05,150 And it's very hard to do when you come from a background of broken relationships. 117 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:06,140 Kayla Crane: Right. 118 00:09:06,140 --> 00:09:11,650 And that's a really good point is that we all have baggage. 119 00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:19,305 We all have, every single person has childhood trauma, um, it's, there's 120 00:09:19,305 --> 00:09:21,405 just kind of no way around it. 121 00:09:21,525 --> 00:09:30,175 And, um, that part is so important because all, almost all of our maladaptive 122 00:09:30,225 --> 00:09:32,544 behaviors go back to childhood. 123 00:09:33,144 --> 00:09:36,985 And so that's where I say like communication's important. 124 00:09:37,415 --> 00:09:43,115 But that's how you address those underlying causes and the underlying 125 00:09:43,115 --> 00:09:49,255 meanings is taking a look back to that, to your childhood and where 126 00:09:49,255 --> 00:09:55,254 you develop these, um, today, they're maladaptive behaviors. 127 00:09:55,254 --> 00:09:59,585 When we were children, we developed them to protect ourselves. 128 00:10:00,035 --> 00:10:04,895 Um, and they were actually adaptive then, however, now we're adults, 129 00:10:04,895 --> 00:10:08,865 we have resources that we didn't have as children and we can, um, 130 00:10:08,875 --> 00:10:12,164 respond, you know, in a healthier way. 131 00:10:12,744 --> 00:10:19,204 So for example, if somebody has, um, a parent that was scary, maybe they have it, 132 00:10:19,505 --> 00:10:22,724 maybe as a child, they would go and kind of withdraw. 133 00:10:22,854 --> 00:10:26,055 They would go to their room and be quiet or shut down. 134 00:10:26,665 --> 00:10:30,155 And so as an adult, they probably do the same thing. 135 00:10:30,594 --> 00:10:34,635 And so it makes sense as a child, why a child would do that. 136 00:10:35,094 --> 00:10:39,205 However, an adult has more communication tools, they can protect themselves. 137 00:10:39,205 --> 00:10:43,145 They've got all different kinds of resources where they don't necessarily 138 00:10:43,145 --> 00:10:45,115 need to withdraw and shut down. 139 00:10:45,774 --> 00:10:52,254 But again, without that recognition that I'm using a maladaptive behavior 140 00:10:52,264 --> 00:10:56,310 here, um, you can't stop it, right? 141 00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:59,740 Because a lot of people just go along thinking, This is just how I am. 142 00:10:59,740 --> 00:11:01,160 This is just what I do. 143 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:07,350 Um, but when we do that awareness, we do, I do a lot of like, um, inner 144 00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:10,760 child work, stuff like that to learn 145 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,280 where this came from, how it originated, what purpose did it serve as a child? 146 00:11:16,290 --> 00:11:17,490 Because that's important. 147 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,549 And to do that work in the presence of their partner so they can gain 148 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,740 some empathy and understanding. 149 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,890 And, Oh, it's not just what I'm, you know, it's not me, 150 00:11:30,185 --> 00:11:31,795 this is kind of their own thing. 151 00:11:31,805 --> 00:11:33,075 This is how they operate. 152 00:11:33,445 --> 00:11:40,485 And now how can we work as a team to, you know, change that behavior to make, 153 00:11:40,595 --> 00:11:43,664 to develop a more, a healthier response. 154 00:11:44,185 --> 00:11:49,784 And it takes both parties to do that because if we're asking somebody to do 155 00:11:49,784 --> 00:11:55,035 something that doesn't feel, like, right, it feels different than what they've 156 00:11:55,035 --> 00:11:59,984 known their entire life, they need to feel safe with their partner, safe 157 00:11:59,984 --> 00:12:06,685 enough to be able to take that risk and not use that protective coping skill. 158 00:12:07,995 --> 00:12:09,045 Ed Watters: I like that a lot. 159 00:12:09,045 --> 00:12:16,735 You just highlighted something key here is, you need to work on this as a couple. 160 00:12:17,115 --> 00:12:23,245 I see so many times where there's women groups and men's groups to separate, 161 00:12:23,315 --> 00:12:26,295 to work on these issues and problems. 162 00:12:26,685 --> 00:12:32,484 But there's very few couples groups that actually come together and 163 00:12:32,785 --> 00:12:36,005 talk about these hard problems. 164 00:12:36,365 --> 00:12:38,675 And how did you solve this? 165 00:12:38,785 --> 00:12:46,295 Or what, what do you think about my issue, and could you give me some highlights? 166 00:12:46,495 --> 00:12:55,824 I think this is important to not only work as a group with couples, but as a couple. 167 00:12:56,504 --> 00:13:02,999 Everyday, we're working as a couple on our relationship now. 168 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:09,829 And when we were trying to walk it alone and, uh, especially us men, uh, 169 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:12,469 I don't want to go seek counseling. 170 00:13:13,099 --> 00:13:18,510 But really, it's the best thing to get you set on the right path 171 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,030 of success in your relationship. 172 00:13:21,459 --> 00:13:29,610 And when I learned that and the bounty of good information that I received 173 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:38,840 when I broke my own self down and let my barriers be opened to allow others 174 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:46,380 to kind of pick at these things and rationalize, it really helped a lot. 175 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:55,525 So back to the original point here, there is always this work that needs 176 00:13:55,525 --> 00:13:58,324 to be done and it's as a couple. 177 00:14:00,395 --> 00:14:06,324 Why do we not see more couples groups helping couples with 178 00:14:06,385 --> 00:14:10,385 these couples problems? 179 00:14:11,734 --> 00:14:14,905 Kayla Crane: I mean, that's a really good question and I don't really know. 180 00:14:14,954 --> 00:14:22,714 I do know, um, more common, um, modalities, couples therapy modalities, 181 00:14:23,185 --> 00:14:29,910 um, mostly encourage like trauma work to be done individually. 182 00:14:30,339 --> 00:14:35,110 The way I work, um, the way I was trained is that we do the trauma work 183 00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:37,850 in the presence of both partners. 184 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:46,949 Um, so because again, this all contributes to their behaviors in the relationship. 185 00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:52,200 And so again, like to first develop that sense of understanding 186 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,990 and empathy from their partner. 187 00:14:54,589 --> 00:14:57,680 Um, so they can, Oh, this makes sense. 188 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,160 This, you know, they can kind of put it together and, um, and 189 00:15:02,170 --> 00:15:04,790 then so they can collaborate. 190 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,899 How can we make this work together? 191 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,739 What do you need when this happens? 192 00:15:09,749 --> 00:15:15,840 When you get triggered, you know, um, work as a team to, when you see 193 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:21,710 your partner is, you know, using these maladaptive, um, behaviors from 194 00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:24,270 childhood, help them recognize that. 195 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:29,049 And of course, it's not as simple as just telling them, you know, there needs to 196 00:15:29,050 --> 00:15:35,369 be some kind, we need to develop what will work best for you in that moment. 197 00:15:35,849 --> 00:15:39,790 Um, and so that's why I think it's really important for both parties 198 00:15:39,810 --> 00:15:44,000 to, to be, to witness that work. 199 00:15:44,339 --> 00:15:51,175 Um, of course, there needs to be this, like, the, um, the establishment of, 200 00:15:51,275 --> 00:15:54,165 it feel, like safety for both parties. 201 00:15:54,165 --> 00:15:57,675 Especially the partner going through their trauma, they need to feel 202 00:15:57,675 --> 00:16:03,324 comfortable and safe with their partner in order to be able to do that work. 203 00:16:03,734 --> 00:16:10,374 Um, but if, if they are, then I highly recommend that they do that work together. 204 00:16:10,754 --> 00:16:16,474 Um, because again, it all, it all shows up in the relationship. 205 00:16:16,935 --> 00:16:23,745 And so it helps so much for the partner to understand and then be part of that 206 00:16:23,745 --> 00:16:31,900 collaboration on how to best manage the, you know, what happens in, in 207 00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,640 those times of conflict or triggers. 208 00:16:37,219 --> 00:16:43,760 Ed Watters: Yeah, I think it's major if, if we separate ourselves in, uh, separate 209 00:16:44,469 --> 00:16:49,380 areas, there's already a separation and we're working on separation. 210 00:16:49,870 --> 00:16:52,220 Where, uh, No, we have a problem. 211 00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:53,500 We've already agreed. 212 00:16:53,530 --> 00:16:56,240 Okay, we'll seek counseling. 213 00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:58,430 Let's do this together. 214 00:16:58,430 --> 00:17:00,459 And that's tough to do at times. 215 00:17:00,459 --> 00:17:03,270 I, I, I don't know. 216 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,810 So when people get mad, they separate. 217 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:16,179 And, and I, I really think that's embedded in our society now where we 218 00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:23,430 get mad and then we don't want to have any communication, we break off ties. 219 00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:28,800 And I think this is destructive in so many ways, because communication 220 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:36,870 is the core of all relationship, business, personal, or whatever. 221 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,330 It's a social arrangement that needs to happen. 222 00:17:40,679 --> 00:17:41,950 What's your thoughts on that? 223 00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:44,320 Kayla Crane: I think you're right. 224 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:51,355 I think what happens is when people do that, when they, I think it's just, um, 225 00:17:51,375 --> 00:17:56,945 they feel hopeless or they don't know what to do and they kind of feel stuck. 226 00:17:57,355 --> 00:17:59,645 Um, Where do we go from here? 227 00:17:59,645 --> 00:18:04,864 We're not making progress, it's just, you know, we're both getting frustrated. 228 00:18:05,284 --> 00:18:07,334 And so just kind of give up. 229 00:18:07,335 --> 00:18:12,459 I don't even want to deal with this because we're not taught this in school. 230 00:18:12,469 --> 00:18:14,850 Like you said, there's no instruction manual. 231 00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:19,780 A lot of us, it wasn't modeled to us by our parents how to 232 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,390 communicate in a healthy way. 233 00:18:21,749 --> 00:18:27,260 It really requires getting educated and learning how to do it. 234 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,600 Um, and that's where, like I said, couples therapy can be so helpful. 235 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:34,220 Also, you can learn it yourself. 236 00:18:34,250 --> 00:18:40,209 You can, you know, read books, um, watch podcasts, or watch, uh, TED 237 00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:45,539 talks, watch all these, you know, there's a lot of options, but it 238 00:18:45,539 --> 00:18:48,330 just doesn't often come naturally. 239 00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:53,890 And so you've, and so it gets really frustrating and discouraging when you get 240 00:18:54,010 --> 00:18:56,750 stuck, and no one really knows what to do. 241 00:18:56,759 --> 00:19:01,829 You keep going back to all you know how to communicate and so does 242 00:19:01,850 --> 00:19:05,069 the person you're communicating with, and you just get stuck. 243 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:12,370 And I think at some point, one or both, just, Okay, we don't 244 00:19:12,370 --> 00:19:13,710 even know what to do from here. 245 00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:19,365 So let's just, let's just talk about something else or not talk or whatever 246 00:19:19,365 --> 00:19:24,175 it is, but not actually repair, right? 247 00:19:25,504 --> 00:19:26,024 Ed Watters: Yes. 248 00:19:26,395 --> 00:19:35,014 You know, many years ago, back in the early eighties, my wife and I, we 249 00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:38,000 sought counseling for the first time. 250 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:45,520 And we ran across a counselor, a counselor that introduced us to Gary 251 00:19:45,530 --> 00:19:50,659 Smalley, and he introduced us to the idea that men and women are different. 252 00:19:51,229 --> 00:19:54,620 And we think different, we act different. 253 00:19:55,230 --> 00:20:02,560 And with that going forward, building a relationship, you've got to realize when 254 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,679 you come in together, you're different. 255 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:10,429 Your, your habits are different, you are going to annoy each other. 256 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:16,090 And that first part of the relationship, getting to know each other's 257 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:23,420 habits and all of that can be very, very tender, if you will, because 258 00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:26,750 nobody wants to offend each other. 259 00:20:27,219 --> 00:20:34,409 And I feel that you should offend each other early and get it out of the way. 260 00:20:34,409 --> 00:20:37,869 I think you should know who you're living with. 261 00:20:38,179 --> 00:20:43,020 You don't like my toothbrush this way, I want to know that. 262 00:20:43,429 --> 00:20:49,289 So we can work together to alter our patterns to come together. 263 00:20:49,809 --> 00:20:56,459 And I think a lot of us, we have these different ideas of what we 264 00:20:56,459 --> 00:20:58,644 want our relationship to be like. 265 00:20:58,965 --> 00:21:06,424 And we don't really take in account what our partner wants, and that 266 00:21:06,424 --> 00:21:08,984 can be very destructive in itself. 267 00:21:09,245 --> 00:21:16,315 And if we don't know who our partner is, it's going to be very hard to 268 00:21:17,625 --> 00:21:20,465 mold together that relationship. 269 00:21:20,735 --> 00:21:27,835 So what's your thought about getting dirty right off the bat and getting to know 270 00:21:27,875 --> 00:21:31,635 people and being honest and open and true? 271 00:21:32,445 --> 00:21:34,665 Kayla Crane: I think that's, that's a good point. 272 00:21:34,745 --> 00:21:42,455 Um, to be able to, you know, um, especially if you're going to move 273 00:21:42,455 --> 00:21:48,855 in with your partner or, you know, develop a, um, a, uh, serious 274 00:21:48,855 --> 00:21:51,204 relationship, it is important. 275 00:21:51,225 --> 00:21:54,724 And at the beginning, you know, the honeymoon phase, that's a real 276 00:21:54,735 --> 00:21:57,984 thing and so everything seems great. 277 00:21:58,054 --> 00:22:02,004 See, you know, um, nothing they do bothers you. 278 00:22:02,004 --> 00:22:06,634 And, uh, that's just not reality, that's not sustainable. 279 00:22:06,664 --> 00:22:11,170 Um, I mean, biologically speaking, that's just not sustainable. 280 00:22:11,170 --> 00:22:14,500 You're, you're not developing those chemicals like you do in the beginning. 281 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:23,139 Um, and so, yeah, it, it's, I think, important to be aware of that, that things 282 00:22:23,139 --> 00:22:25,829 are going to be easy in the beginning. 283 00:22:25,949 --> 00:22:33,020 Um, and it's going to not remain that easy, it's going to actually take work. 284 00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:38,044 And that doesn't mean that your relationship is in a bad place 285 00:22:38,044 --> 00:22:39,475 or it's not doing as well. 286 00:22:39,495 --> 00:22:42,005 Sometimes people mistake that, right? 287 00:22:42,015 --> 00:22:46,595 Like, Oh, we're having some, um, disagreements or, you know, there's 288 00:22:46,595 --> 00:22:51,114 something really wrong with us because it's not as pleasant as it was in 289 00:22:51,114 --> 00:22:56,055 the beginning, but that's just the normal trajectory of a relationship. 290 00:22:56,514 --> 00:23:03,740 Um, so I think having that, uh, kind of awareness and acceptance that it's going 291 00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:05,500 to change, it's going to get harder. 292 00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:11,600 And I, I have people that come in, you know, right at the beginning of 293 00:23:11,929 --> 00:23:18,380 their, like that transition into a more serious relationship, um, just to be 294 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:22,760 proactive and develop the skills and the tools that they're going to need 295 00:23:22,770 --> 00:23:24,629 to be successful in the relationship. 296 00:23:25,034 --> 00:23:27,565 I don't often have those people, but I do sometimes. 297 00:23:27,915 --> 00:23:34,494 And it really kind of sets them up for success because I always tell couples, 298 00:23:34,494 --> 00:23:39,294 even after, you know, we finish our time together and hopefully, you know, 299 00:23:39,305 --> 00:23:45,395 you're on a better track, things are all, you know, working out great, 300 00:23:45,705 --> 00:23:47,185 you're going to hit another rough patch. 301 00:23:47,185 --> 00:23:51,125 Like it's unrealistic to think that you're not going to. 302 00:23:51,485 --> 00:23:59,120 And so that's kind of a, a goal of mine, when I have couples leave, is to really 303 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:06,100 make sure that they've got a lot of tools, a lot of resources, um, to set 304 00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:12,740 them up for success going forward because that's just reality of a relationship. 305 00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:18,389 Um, there's going to be conflict and actually, if there's not, if people 306 00:24:18,459 --> 00:24:24,770 come in, um, or, you know, if I hear we actually don't fight at all, that's 307 00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:29,830 usually a red flag because that means that you're, you're avoiding things, right? 308 00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:32,679 Because that's not reality. 309 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,770 It just doesn't happen, two different human beings, there's 310 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,120 going to be conflict at some point. 311 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:42,100 It doesn't have to be unhealthy, it doesn't have to get mean or anything, 312 00:24:42,139 --> 00:24:44,820 but there's going to be some conflict. 313 00:24:45,259 --> 00:24:49,239 Um, and if there's not, that's, uh, there's a strong possibility that 314 00:24:49,259 --> 00:24:51,279 it's just being avoided or ignored. 315 00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:59,139 So the, the goal is to learn how to have conflict in a healthy, productive way. 316 00:25:00,339 --> 00:25:01,319 Ed Watters: Yeah, I like that. 317 00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:02,999 You have to be authentic. 318 00:25:03,049 --> 00:25:08,939 If you're not authentic, you're not really in a true relationship and you're 319 00:25:08,939 --> 00:25:11,189 going to find that out the hard way. 320 00:25:11,489 --> 00:25:20,250 So I like that there are ways to help young couples get through this process 321 00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:26,409 in the beginning, because I highly recommend just go and get counsel. 322 00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:31,919 If you're really serious about being together, there's 323 00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:34,009 a reason you feel that way. 324 00:25:34,665 --> 00:25:42,595 And if you seek that counsel up front, you might keep that and be 325 00:25:42,595 --> 00:25:44,684 set up for success, like you said. 326 00:25:44,784 --> 00:25:46,155 I like that a lot. 327 00:25:46,955 --> 00:25:51,585 What do you feel about negative self talk in a relationship? 328 00:25:52,015 --> 00:25:58,895 You know, we always have this doubt and this negative side to us, and we 329 00:25:58,895 --> 00:26:02,105 always want to drag that up in conflict. 330 00:26:04,265 --> 00:26:08,855 What, how can we avoid negative self conflict? 331 00:26:11,925 --> 00:26:13,725 Kayla Crane: So, yeah, that's a good point. 332 00:26:13,735 --> 00:26:15,195 A lot of people do that. 333 00:26:15,245 --> 00:26:23,455 Um, and that is, so that's, goes back to, again, it goes back to childhood. 334 00:26:23,505 --> 00:26:29,785 Um, in childhood we develop, uh, like negative beliefs about ourself, right? 335 00:26:29,785 --> 00:26:32,615 And that's usually where we see the negative self talk. 336 00:26:32,995 --> 00:26:39,770 And so, um, if somebody's negative belief is, um, 337 00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:46,830 I can't do, um, or I don't, I don't deserve love, 338 00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:49,999 that's a very common negative or negative core belief. 339 00:26:50,490 --> 00:26:58,765 And so if that's their core belief, um, then most of the conflict, 340 00:26:58,835 --> 00:27:03,565 that's like going to be that deeper meaning is, they're going to pull 341 00:27:03,585 --> 00:27:05,635 out of it, that negative core belief. 342 00:27:05,995 --> 00:27:11,585 And so if my core belief is I don't believe I'm worthy of love, when 343 00:27:11,585 --> 00:27:15,975 I, um, when there's conflict with my partner, that's going to be the 344 00:27:16,015 --> 00:27:19,365 underlying thing that I go to is, 345 00:27:19,804 --> 00:27:25,995 Oh, you're mad at me that I, um, I didn't call when I was supposed 346 00:27:25,995 --> 00:27:31,164 to call you, um, that, uh, I just don't deserve your love, right? 347 00:27:31,175 --> 00:27:34,604 That's what I'm, that person's going to often go to. 348 00:27:34,975 --> 00:27:39,924 If somebody's core belief is I'm going to be left, right? 349 00:27:39,925 --> 00:27:47,405 It's something with abandonment, then the same thing, that, um, the same, conflict. 350 00:27:47,465 --> 00:27:50,925 Oh, you didn't call, I'm going to take that from that, Oh, 351 00:27:50,925 --> 00:27:52,295 you're going to leave me. 352 00:27:52,705 --> 00:27:54,365 If that makes sense? 353 00:27:54,384 --> 00:27:58,045 So that's where the negative self talk comes in. 354 00:27:58,355 --> 00:28:02,690 That's something within yourself, right? 355 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,990 That's not what, even though it feels like your partner's telling 356 00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:09,179 you you're not worthy of love or you're going to be abandoned, 357 00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:11,680 that's what you're coming up with. 358 00:28:12,059 --> 00:28:16,810 And so again, that's good work that you can do in your couple's session 359 00:28:16,810 --> 00:28:19,220 in the presence of both parties. 360 00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:24,504 Um, so your partner can get some awareness of, Oh, this is what 361 00:28:24,504 --> 00:28:27,134 they're taking from our conflict. 362 00:28:27,605 --> 00:28:33,795 And we can use that once we can develop what that negative self talk is. 363 00:28:34,185 --> 00:28:40,445 We can kind of collaborate on a plan of, um, going forward, 364 00:28:40,905 --> 00:28:42,844 what their partner can say 365 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,270 to help them with that. 366 00:28:46,270 --> 00:28:52,199 And so if they know that their partner is going to, their negative belief is I'm 367 00:28:52,200 --> 00:29:00,800 going to be left during conflict, then we can, maybe their partner says, I'm, 368 00:29:00,890 --> 00:29:03,170 I love you, I'm not going to leave you. 369 00:29:03,659 --> 00:29:08,040 And I'm really mad that you didn't call or something like that. 370 00:29:08,110 --> 00:29:14,635 Um, they can come up together with what would feel right to help prevent 371 00:29:14,635 --> 00:29:19,024 their partner going into that place or pull them out of that place. 372 00:29:20,565 --> 00:29:21,635 Ed Watters: I like that a lot. 373 00:29:22,035 --> 00:29:25,175 So, resources is big. 374 00:29:25,185 --> 00:29:33,025 You know, when, when we get into counseling, uh, couples, they tend to 375 00:29:33,025 --> 00:29:38,585 think that, Well, I'll go there once a week and that will be the time. 376 00:29:38,595 --> 00:29:41,754 No, that's a 24/7 job. 377 00:29:42,155 --> 00:29:50,460 Once you step into the role of accepting counseling, that's where the work begins 378 00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:53,110 then you have to put the time in. 379 00:29:53,670 --> 00:30:00,320 My wife and I, now we are always setting aside time for us to learn together. 380 00:30:00,699 --> 00:30:08,775 Uh, currently we're on a book, and we read a chapter each week together 381 00:30:09,075 --> 00:30:16,005 and we, we have so many books lined up for our journey together. 382 00:30:16,634 --> 00:30:24,055 Because we anticipate this work together and it helps pull you together and unite 383 00:30:24,055 --> 00:30:30,735 you when you're actually eager to work together on bettering, not me, not her, 384 00:30:30,755 --> 00:30:35,370 but us and the people we interact with. 385 00:30:35,410 --> 00:30:41,780 Because a happy couple projects a happy world and, and that's 386 00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:43,860 really one of our missions. 387 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:55,090 So talk to us about the work involved in overcoming a bad relationship. 388 00:30:57,290 --> 00:30:59,770 Kayla Crane: Yeah, I think that's, that's a good point. 389 00:30:59,819 --> 00:31:07,760 Um, when couples do come to couples therapy together, that in itself 390 00:31:07,969 --> 00:31:15,280 can be, um, a strength that can be something that off of, right? 391 00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:21,020 Like, um, when they feel so discouraged and they come in, it's 392 00:31:21,020 --> 00:31:23,840 like, well, you're both here, right? 393 00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:27,289 So you've got that, you both want the same thing. 394 00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:32,319 Usually I'll ask them, you know, and usually they want to stay together. 395 00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:37,465 Um, and so, Well, already you guys are working together 396 00:31:37,525 --> 00:31:40,895 on a, as a team to do this. 397 00:31:40,925 --> 00:31:49,874 And so I think just being at couples therapy together is step one, right? 398 00:31:49,875 --> 00:31:53,425 It kind of aligns you, Hey, we've got the same goal here. 399 00:31:53,845 --> 00:31:59,145 And so throughout our time together, I try to remind couples that when they 400 00:31:59,145 --> 00:32:06,210 start, um, kind of assuming, not assuming good intentions from their partner. 401 00:32:06,570 --> 00:32:09,370 It's like, Hey, why do you think they're here right now? 402 00:32:09,460 --> 00:32:12,890 I mean, couples therapy is not fun, right? 403 00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:15,590 It's not where people want to spend their time. 404 00:32:15,910 --> 00:32:19,340 You're there to work to, to make things better. 405 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:24,419 And so I think that's really important for couples to keep in mind. 406 00:32:25,389 --> 00:32:30,865 A lot of times when they get to me, they are in a really difficult place 407 00:32:31,355 --> 00:32:36,855 and it's hard for them to see that their partner cares at all, right? 408 00:32:36,895 --> 00:32:41,195 All they see is that, Oh, my partner's mad at me, they hate me, 409 00:32:41,215 --> 00:32:42,584 they don't want to be around me, 410 00:32:42,585 --> 00:32:44,335 they don't want to be in this relationship. 411 00:32:44,855 --> 00:32:50,245 Um, so I try to really highlight that, um, Well, they're here. 412 00:32:50,265 --> 00:32:55,150 They're doing the work, you're both doing the work, you're that invested. 413 00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:59,310 And that's a huge piece of it, you know, both of you just 414 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,970 being willing to do this work. 415 00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:08,779 Um, and then, yeah, like you said, it isn't just that time and session. 416 00:33:09,179 --> 00:33:14,789 The time and session I use to, you know, sometimes I'll ask them 417 00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:16,560 about a conflict that happened. 418 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,280 Um, a lot of times I will, but that's not to solve that conflict. 419 00:33:21,639 --> 00:33:28,920 Um, like that's not what, that's not going to be productive, um, if every single 420 00:33:28,930 --> 00:33:32,670 time they come in and they say, This is what we fought over and we spent our whole 421 00:33:32,670 --> 00:33:35,570 entire time resolving that one conflict. 422 00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:38,920 Um, because then they're going to need to be coming to couples therapy 423 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,469 for every conflict forever, right? 424 00:33:41,490 --> 00:33:47,299 And so sometimes I will ask about the conflict just so we can use 425 00:33:47,299 --> 00:33:55,030 that as, um, so I can have examples of where did this go wrong, right? 426 00:33:55,030 --> 00:34:00,340 And then also maybe kind of like redoing it in my presence and me 427 00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:06,675 guiding them through this is how, you know, it, it can work better. 428 00:34:07,265 --> 00:34:12,625 Um, and then having them so they can go forward and use those 429 00:34:12,625 --> 00:34:14,995 skills on their next conflict. 430 00:34:15,295 --> 00:34:21,114 Because that's the, the real key, I think, with couples therapy is coming out with 431 00:34:21,304 --> 00:34:27,400 those tools and resources to be able to get through conflict on their own. 432 00:34:27,910 --> 00:34:32,890 Um, and so, yeah, I send homework and then, so that there 433 00:34:32,890 --> 00:34:35,100 is that time to carry over. 434 00:34:35,650 --> 00:34:39,200 Otherwise you're, you're with me, you know, for a short period. 435 00:34:39,209 --> 00:34:47,180 And, um, sometimes, you know, the stuff, it doesn't, we've gone over so much that 436 00:34:47,545 --> 00:34:53,105 it's hard to kind of keep everything top of mind, so I try to give some homework 437 00:34:53,195 --> 00:34:59,004 to reinforce what we talked about, what we worked on, those tools or resources. 438 00:34:59,004 --> 00:35:00,264 I think that's important. 439 00:35:01,465 --> 00:35:04,855 Ed Watters: I think that's where the magic happens is in that homework. 440 00:35:05,125 --> 00:35:08,404 Because that's really where you're authentic with each other 441 00:35:08,604 --> 00:35:13,844 the most, and that's where your comfort zone is going to be anyway. 442 00:35:14,254 --> 00:35:17,220 So that's where you have to concentrate on. 443 00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:24,220 So let's segue into your resources and your services, because I looked 444 00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:27,780 on your website and it's fabulous. 445 00:35:27,790 --> 00:35:32,999 The resources that you offer, free resources, uh, these are 446 00:35:33,169 --> 00:35:36,979 unique and very helpful to people. 447 00:35:37,319 --> 00:35:41,295 Could you talk to us about your resources first, and then let's 448 00:35:41,295 --> 00:35:43,585 segue into the service end of it. 449 00:35:44,455 --> 00:35:44,855 Kayla Crane: Yeah. 450 00:35:44,935 --> 00:35:52,635 So, um, on my website, I do have some free workbooks, um, communication workbooks, 451 00:35:52,645 --> 00:35:59,315 and, um, like depression and stuff that a lot of people do struggle with. 452 00:35:59,725 --> 00:36:07,395 Um, so those are free to check out, um, on my website, southdenvertherapy.com. 453 00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:14,670 Like I said, couples therapy, I can do couples therapy or individual therapy, 454 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:17,980 um, throughout the state of Colorado. 455 00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:20,020 Anyone who's located in Colorado. 456 00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:26,570 I can also offer couples coaching, um, through any, uh, that can be 457 00:36:26,755 --> 00:36:30,965 anywhere located that doesn't, isn't restricted to Colorado. 458 00:36:31,505 --> 00:36:38,475 Um, I offer couples coaching intensives and, uh, like I said, I also offer, 459 00:36:38,525 --> 00:36:47,580 um, the trauma work, um, in, for both couples and individuals, and I do 460 00:36:47,580 --> 00:36:51,610 incorporate EMDR if, uh, appropriate. 461 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:53,279 Ed Watters: All right. 462 00:36:53,499 --> 00:36:58,439 And so do you have a call to action for our listeners today? 463 00:36:59,910 --> 00:37:00,609 Kayla Crane: Okay, yeah. 464 00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:10,640 Yeah, I think just, um, trying to keep in mind that, like I said, um, a lot of 465 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,295 relationships, they're, they're savable. 466 00:37:14,335 --> 00:37:21,605 You can repair your relationship, most likely, even in incredibly, 467 00:37:21,695 --> 00:37:24,565 um, difficult circumstances. 468 00:37:24,975 --> 00:37:29,765 You'd be surprised at how, um, how much can be repaired. 469 00:37:30,145 --> 00:37:36,305 And so keeping that in mind that there are resources for, to 470 00:37:36,305 --> 00:37:39,954 help you in your relationship, to help you and your partner. 471 00:37:40,415 --> 00:37:43,055 Like I said, couples therapy can really work. 472 00:37:43,365 --> 00:37:47,445 Um, finding a really good couples therapist can be helpful, ask 473 00:37:47,445 --> 00:37:49,215 your friends for referrals. 474 00:37:49,605 --> 00:37:55,015 Um, more people than you know actually do go to therapy, uh, you'd be surprised. 475 00:37:55,534 --> 00:38:01,285 And, um, you know, if you also just check out some books, some reading, 476 00:38:01,415 --> 00:38:06,495 um, and that, that's a really good place to get started on learning 477 00:38:06,505 --> 00:38:13,305 some tools that you can take into your relationship and use those also. 478 00:38:13,354 --> 00:38:18,375 Um, so I think those are a good place, a good couple places to start if 479 00:38:18,375 --> 00:38:20,105 you're struggling in your relationship. 480 00:38:20,165 --> 00:38:25,775 And even if you're not, like I said, even just a few, um, a few books or a few 481 00:38:25,775 --> 00:38:30,615 sessions with the therapist can really, uh, help you out, give you some tools 482 00:38:30,915 --> 00:38:33,265 for when you do hit those rough patches. 483 00:38:33,705 --> 00:38:40,714 And again, trying to get your partner on board, um, and so you guys can do it as a 484 00:38:40,745 --> 00:38:44,815 team and you can both be equally invested. 485 00:38:45,175 --> 00:38:49,065 And again, keeping in mind that it's probably fixable. 486 00:38:49,790 --> 00:38:50,820 Ed Watters: I like it a lot. 487 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,270 Kayla, it's been a delight speaking with you. 488 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:59,880 How can people reach out and how can people find you, locate 489 00:39:00,310 --> 00:39:02,889 you, and interact with you? 490 00:39:03,689 --> 00:39:03,889 Kayla Crane: Yeah. 491 00:39:03,950 --> 00:39:12,219 Um, so I can be found on Facebook and Instagram @southdenvertherapy. 492 00:39:12,234 --> 00:39:16,241 Again, my website is www.southdenvertherapy.com. 493 00:39:16,770 --> 00:39:22,095 Um, and yeah, you can reach out to me, uh, through any of those. 494 00:39:23,015 --> 00:39:23,625 Ed Watters: All right. 495 00:39:24,095 --> 00:39:28,965 Kayla, it's fascinating how much knowledge you have about relationships. 496 00:39:29,255 --> 00:39:33,424 And I want to say thank you for sharing it here today on the 497 00:39:33,424 --> 00:39:34,725 Dead America Podcast with us. 498 00:39:37,575 --> 00:39:38,755 Kayla Crane: Yeah, it's been a pleasure. 499 00:39:38,755 --> 00:39:40,045 Thanks so much for having me. 500 00:39:43,775 --> 00:39:45,505 Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. 501 00:39:46,115 --> 00:39:52,345 If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, 502 00:39:53,125 --> 00:39:59,500 please share, like, subscribe and join us right back here next week for another 503 00:39:59,510 --> 00:40:02,460 great episode of the Dead America Podcast. 504 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,730 I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.