To overcome, you must educate.
Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn.
We are all Dead America, we can all learn something.
To learn, we must challenge what we already understand.
The way we do that is through conversation.
Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best
conversations happen with ourselves.
Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something new right now.
Today we're speaking with Dana S. Diaz, she's a returning guest to the podcast.
Her new book, Choking on Shame, The Scapegoat Child in a Narcissistic Family.
Dana, could you please introduce yourself and let people know a
little more about you, please?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I was, as you said, a guest before with my book Gasping for
Air, which talked about my former marriage, um, which, in which I was
married to an abusive narcissist.
And the abuse, living that fight or flight mode for so long actually
made me autoimmune and gave me a lung disease, kind of reaffirming that, that
cliche that stress really can kill you.
But after that book came out, a lot of people were asking, Well, we're
meeting you, we're seeing you, we're hearing you, you know, in interviews,
you seem like an independent minded, um, strong willed, educated
woman, like how could you end up being in this situation where you
were submitting to this man who clearly didn't know what he had?
And, you know, it didn't take me but a second to say, Well, it was my childhood.
I mean, isn't that, I mean, I hate to be cliche in that way and blame the
parents, but the reality is, is that we are kind of hardwired by the time we're
six or seven years old as to who we are and what our place is in the world.
And how to relate with other people and roles and all these things that
we absorb, even though people don't realize we're taking, we don't even
realize we're taking in this information.
So, you know, we kind of went backwards writing this prequel Choking on Shame,
which goes right into my personal story of being born to a teenage
mother who didn't want me and I would argue didn't want any children.
But then how she went on to remain emotionally detached from me, allowed
the man she ended up marrying to abuse me, um, and how that basically
set me up on the wrong path for life.
Yeah, it's a riveting tale once you dive into Dana's story.
But you know, it was really kind of piquing my interest and it was one of
my highlighted questions about why you started in the middle of the story.
Is there a reason for that or is it just by chance that you
went back to explain forward.
Honestly, I never meant to write more than one book.
And when I originally set to write anything, tell my story, so to
speak, I wrote the whole story.
But forty some years of very complex, emotional, and psychological, and physical
warfare basically, and, and unraveling all that so that people can really
understand the depths of it, um, it, we just couldn't do that in one book.
So we just put the one book out there.
We focused on the one relationship, you know, a romantic relationship
with a narcissist and how that obviously went very wrong.
Um, started off bad, ended up with domestic violence even after the
divorce, um, as we discussed last time.
So this time, like I said, it was more in response to readers because
a lot of people do reach out to me and I'm thankful for that.
You know, that they read Gasping for Air and they said, I have the strength now.
Thank you.
You know, I'm going to leave my relationship or I just ended my
relationship because I realized, you know, that I deserve
better too, and all this stuff.
But there were still those questions, people are always
seeking to understand the reasons.
Why did they do this to me?
Why did I succumb to it?
What made me vulnerable to it?
And my answer, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a therapist and, you know, I could
sit and give reasons to every individual person, but the best way to do anything
was just to tell my experience.
And my experience was that I was basically primed for it.
I was raised to think that I was nothing and that I would never be
an, I was actually told directly as a child that nobody would ever love me.
Nobody ever wanted me, you know, it was the typical, I would never
be enough, that whole thing.
And it's such a pitying thing.
But what's even sadder is that as tenacious as I was, even as a child,
and stood up for myself, and I would, I would shout back and say, No, I'm
good, I'm, I'm, somebody's gonna love me, you know, I would fight it, but
I was still making it mean something about me at the end of the day.
And it made me feel deficient.
And I went out in the world and the first guy I found that gave me the slightest
bit of attention, I just glommed on because I was looking for that love and
affection that I hadn't gotten at home.
I was that kid that didn't get hugged or soothed, you know, I was always a bother.
If I scraped my knee, if I was crying about something, I needed
to stop feeling anything, I wasn't allowed to have emotions, you know?
So we tell of all this because I don't think people realize when they think about
child abuse or any abuse, even in adult relationships, you think abuse, you think
a woman, you know, walking around with a black eye or a kid walking around, you
know, with being banged up and bruised.
We don't understand that that's such a small part of abuse.
I mean, as of last year, the Children's Alliance here in the U. S. said that
only eighteen percent, I mean, only, it's still too much, but eighteen percent of
child abuse cases last year were physical.
Just 18%.
You know, even less of a percentage were sexual.
Thank God, because I think that's probably the worst, honestly.
Um, but most of it, most of it deals with the psychological stuff.
The neglect, emotional neglect, because neglect, people think it's just,
Oh, you're not feeding your child.
You're not providing them.
But we all have needs and part of that is the need to belong, the need to
feel secure, the need to feel safe.
And yes, we need air to breathe and we need food for nourishment
to survive and water and such.
But there's this element that emotional neglect is huge.
Because, I mean, look at where we are now, September is Suicide
Awareness Month worldwide.
Why do people kill themselves?
Because they're lonely and they are alone with that pain of that loneliness.
It's not because they want to die, I guarantee you.
It's not because they want to die, they just want the pain to stop.
But where does that pain originate?
Where does that loneliness originate?
In childhood.
And it's in these neglect cases that take up way too much.
And, and, and you know, people think it's among, you know, lower income
or, you know, minority, um, you know, and ethnic groups, but it's not.
By an astronomical percentage, this is prevalent more among Caucasian people.
Because if you look at, you know, and I'm just going off the top of my head,
but Asian cultures, Hispanic cultures, Indian cultures, all around the world,
people are more communal.
You know, grandma lives in the home, maybe aunts and uncles, and cousins,
and, and, and everybody gets raised within that community of family.
And here in this country, you know, and forgive me, I mean, I'm white
too, but we have this thing about independence and, you know, all this
self and me, me, me, we lose ourselves in that because we are not connecting.
I mean, it's a basic human need to connect.
And when we're not getting that connection, I mean, for me, I had zero
connection with my mother, my stepfather didn't even want to try to connect
with me, I was alone as a little girl.
And thank God I'm still standing here and, and I'm getting better every day.
But I mean, it's a life, these are lifelong damaging things that you're
constantly looking for love and it creates that codependency and these
people pleasing habits and all this stuff that ends us up in toxic relationships
where we're disappointed all over again, you know, for a million reasons.
But, um, this is something that definitely needs attention.
I think if we could make people more aware of it, then, maybe we can't change the
world, but we can maybe change how a few people interact with their kids at home.
You know, like, get off your damn phone, stop scrolling through social media,
when your child comes to you, just look at them, give them your attention.
Put the phones down at dinner, turn the TV off, talk to your kids.
Then maybe your kids will come to you and want to talk with you.
I mean, when was the last time, I rarely see a parent outside tossing or
kicking a ball around with their kid.
Like, we need to start creating that connection again and stop with the social
stuff and stop with this electronic crap.
Because your kid does not need to be raised by Spongebob or whoever.
Like, we just really need to get people to wake up.
Yeah, I agree 100 percent with that Dana.
You're getting good at this.
Uh, I just want to compliment you on that.
Yeah, you know, a lot of people, they get nervous when they start touting the
numbers, but you're really good at that.
And I appreciate that you brought that awareness into what we're doing
because that's truly what we're about is highlighting these abuses.
And we're getting better ourselves at doing this.
My wife, you know, she was told the same thing, You'll never find anybody.
You're not worth anything.
And I can tell you, as a witness, what devastating
consequences that has long term.
And it's, it's such a shame because my wife is beautiful.
She's one of the best persons on this planet.
And I don't understand how her father or her mother could let this happen.
But how could they even conclude that?
It's really shameful in many ways.
And that really is what you highlight, that narcissistic,
uh, disease in our culture.
And, and I really appreciate that you're taking the time doing these things.
What has been the most educational thing that you've learned since you've started
podcasting about narcissistic behaviors.
Wow.
I mean, I think it's interesting, you know, I'm going to say this,
I don't know if it's educational, but it's something that I learned.
In the middle of a podcast interview, as a matter of fact, because this is
the first thing that came to mind when you asked that question, you know, I
got chills when you said that about your wife, because I'm forty-eight
years old and I'm still dealing with it.
Getting better, improving, but my God, it just never, that nagging feeling,
that repeat of those words in your mind when something triggers that.
And, and I feel badly for my husband, because I'm remarried, and my husband
is so sweet, and so gentle, and so amazing, and so understanding, even
though he has no clue what this is like.
Because he grew up in a tight knit, close, you know, very nice family.
But he's so patient with me, thank God.
But, you know, I was on this podcast and I was telling this story, you know,
about how I was, you know, born to my mother and she was a teenager and she
didn't want me and how I, right after my birth, I mean, immediately after
my birth, she didn't even hold me.
I was told, obviously I didn't remember, I was just born, but she had
her tubes tied right then and there.
Right then and there.
Which tells me she didn't want any children, I was kind of cramping her
style because she had plans for her life and I wasn't part of that plan.
But I remember the podcast host saying
that she kind of felt sorry for my mother.
And at first I was, I mean, you could see my body here, I'm like, what?
Like, I'm like appalled.
Like, I'm the victim here.
Like, I am the one that's had to deal with this.
But I realized in that moment that that was my ego being insulted.
Because when I actually got off that podcast and thought
about it, I'm like, Man.
You know, I mean, I am fully aware
that what happened in my childhood, and I talk about that in my book, you know, my
mother grew up in an abusive home as well.
She had, do you want to talk about a narcissist?
Her father was a drunk narcissist, put a gun to her head.
Like, she endured horrors that no child should ever have to endure.
And then the man she ended up marrying, well, he was literally,
both parents abandoned him and his siblings when he was a baby.
They were, grew up in foster care where he was abused.
So like, I get it.
I understand, but that does not excuse it.
Because they still made a choice to abuse me.
And having been abused, I mean, I didn't abuse my son.
I made that choice.
But going back to that feeling sorry for my mom, I realized in that after
I got over myself, you know, and my own insult about that comment,
I realized that, you know what?
We're all living a human experience and who am I to say that my mother
at sixteen years old or seventeen years old should have known better
or should have been more aware to have made a choice to raise me right?
Because I thought, Oh my gosh, I guess I feel bad for her too.
Because I started thinking when I'm, you know, sixteen, seventeen years old,
my God, you know, the biggest decision I had was like, what was I going to
wear that day and change ten times.
Like, life should be that petty and simple and ridiculous, not, Oh my gosh,
I have now this baby and I'm living in an abusive home where my drunk narcissist
father is slinging stuff around and bringing women home every night that
my mother has to walk into, you know, the living room and see him having sex
with, that was the life she was living.
And so taking a step back from myself and looking at it objectively, I'm like,
Man, I guess I do feel sorry for her too.
Because, you know, we always say they did the best they could, but we can't
assume that everybody opens their eyes and says, Oh, I have to heal
from all of this trauma so that I can be the best parent that I can be.
I mean, it takes people sometimes till their thirties, or forties,
fifties, sixties, seventies to do that.
How is she going to do that at sixteen?
You know, so that was probably the biggest lesson that I've learned in all this.
And I was so grateful to that podcast host, you know?
You know, like I said, once I got over the offense.
But it was a lesson for myself too, because that's exactly where
narcissism comes from is the ego.
And we all have it and we all operate in it.
You know, when we feel offended, when we feel hurt, all insulted, that's our ego.
And, and I think that that's what made me realize that, you know what?
I can let go of this.
You know, I don't want to say I ever hated my mother, but I think I resented
her tremendously for letting me grow up that way and letting all that stuff happen
to me and, and her participation in it.
But I think that helped me to release that.
You know, a good portion of it and realize that she was living life,
she was dealing with things the best that she knew at that age.
She was just a baby herself and she didn't know what to do with me coming along.
Now being a baby in her care.
So it's eyeopening when you realize it.
And certainly I don't want to be a narcissist and we all have
narcissistic tendencies at times, you know, where we feel those
things and our ego doesn't like it.
But I think if we can be aware of it and move forward and move out of
it, then that's where we'll be okay.
And where we'll have room for that empathy that we need to have for others
to make the world a better place.
Yeah, that's true.
I like that a lot.
And that is a good lesson because a lot of us overlook that simple fact.
I, I often talk to my wife about this.
What did our family go through before we were even born that made them do this.
And, and if we learn to empathize with that a little bit, our own troubles
tend to lessen just a wee bit.
Not, not everything, because like you said, it's a, lifelong
thing, and we always feel it.
I, I've been through abuse myself and I can tell you even men that want
to pretend that they're tough and they, they appear nothing shocks or
influences them, it does in many ways.
And that behavior, it, it really induces this type of narcissistic
behavior towards other people.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think that comes out of an anger because you're repressing everything
and, and you know, eventually it's going to just erupt out of you.
Yeah, I agree a lot.
And through discovery walking this path of healing, because it takes
a long time, my wife and I are really starting to grow together
now instead of just being together.
And there's a big difference.
You know, I love my wife and it took everything I had to
really look deep inside myself.
Because I was a shameful guy, I came from dirt that was just stinky mud.
And to clean it up, that's a choice, like you said.
And this is what we have to remember, if you continue your walk, it's by choice.
It's not an excuse.
And a lot of people need to remember that and understand all you're
doing is making it an excuse.
There's always reasons we don't want to do something.
And generally, it's because that shame and guilt that we feel from our own actions.
Wouldn't you agree?
I agree a hundred percent.
And I think that also there's this misconception about healing.
You know, I, I used to always get annoyed when people would say,
cause it's a common thing, people say, Oh, let it go, let it go.
And I, I remember getting frustrated with people when they kept saying that to me.
And I would say, It's not like I'm trying to hold on to this.
I don't want that, who the hell wants to live with this stuff in their head?
But at the same time, I'll be honest with you.
And this has been my journey of self awareness and self discovery was
that as much as I didn't want to live like that, and as much as I did want
to let go, I was holding on to it.
I was holding on to it.
You know, I, I told somebody recently that it's like, it's like I was thrown
off a cliff and I'm hanging on to a rope and, and, and somebody you know, it
could be any number of the people that abused me, just as willing to cut, cut
that rope and let me fall to my death.
You know, yet I'm the one that put myself, I went to the cliff with them.
I was still holding onto that rope.
I didn't have to be there, I didn't have to put myself in that circumstance.
So I was, I was making a choice to hold on to that and to
imprison myself in the past.
And as long as I was imprisoning myself in the past, I could not let
in the blessings of now, the present.
The future.
I couldn't be happy.
Like that's a common thing and I, something I struggled
with is, why can't I be happy?
Like life is good now, why can't I be happy?
Because I haven't settled the stuff of the past, I haven't resolved my
anger and resentment and all that other stuff to be able to remove that, that,
that crap from my heart, basically.
I know that's not a nice word, but, um, the only one that came to mind.
But once you can remove that muck from your heart, then you have room for the
joy and the happy and all that good stuff.
But we just don't know.
And, and honestly, in my defense, having grown up in that childhood and
then spending twenty-five years with an abusive husband in a marriage, honestly,
I think I was so used to the chaos that I had just forgotten how to just be.
And how to just be happy and how to even let myself feel happiness.
Because I was afraid to.
I was like, The bomb's gonna drop, I can't trust this.
This is not what it really, you know, this isn't what it appears to be.
Whether it's a person, a situation, I can't let my guard down.
Can't smile, can't laugh, can't do any of that because I got to be on guard.
I have to be vigilant.
Well, you know, at some point I, I had to make the decision and, and, and
tell myself, Lay the sword down, honey.
Lay the damn sword down.
We don't have to fight anymore, there's nobody to fight.
You know, and it takes a long time and I'm sure your wife can relate,
it takes a long time for you to convince your mind that you're okay.
And then your body takes even longer sometimes.
That, that nervous system that, that serves basically as, as an inner alarm
for us, you know, to know if we're in danger or not, it takes it a long
time to trust how things are now and to settle and to know you're okay.
And, but it has to start in your mind.
There is a true mind and body connection and we have to make the choice.
And now what, what frustrates me now is when people reach out to me,
and I, I feel it, like they say, I want to, I want to let it go.
I want to move past it, I want to heal.
I want it to, whatever it is.
But they don't.
Because you give them, you can hand them on a silver platter, here's what you
need to do, or here's what worked for me.
And those, Oh, that won't work for me.
Oh, I can't do that.
There's no such thing as can't and that's a whole other lecture.
It is a choice though.
You can, you know?
I used to coach cross country and I used to tell the kids, No, you can't
run ten miles today, but you can maybe in the future, if you start practicing
and taking the steps towards it.
But you're never going to get anywhere, you can't if you decide you're not to.
If you say that to yourself, you won't.
So we need to start talking to ourselves in a kinder way, we need to start
reminding ourselves of our worth.
You know, instead of looking for it externally.
And we need to start really just kind of nurturing ourselves when
we didn't have that parent or, or, God forbid, in my case, both
parents to nurture you in that way.
You kind of grow up and find yourself in your forties, you know,
kind of being your own parent and trying to nurture that, that stuff
inside you that needs to feel okay.
So that you can live the rest of your life having some, some peace, if nothing else.
Yeah.
Well, there's no manual for any of this.
And, and, you know, it's very interesting, my wife went through physical and sexual
abuse and your book opens up with this.
It's, it's the same, same thing.
You know, your father or stepfather, excuse me, he, he basically doesn't
realize he's dealing with a child.
You know, going to a TV set and clicking a TV knob.
I used to do that constantly because I was trying to figure
out what made it work, you know?
So
Yeah, I just liked the clicking sound.
And I was, yeah, you're a little kid, you're just messing around.
But yeah, they, they, it's very sad to me that a grown man, though, can
feel that, that need, that insatiable need to harm a little tiny child.
So that they can have their peace, I suppose.
But yeah, it's hard.
It's hard.
And you know, when I grew up, when I got to be a teenager and got to be
the same size, I was bigger and I was angrier, I got pretty damn angry by the
time I was fifteen, sixteen you know?
But to have your own mother put her hands around your neck and, and to
black out and think you're gonna, you're, you know, I remember thinking,
my, my mother's going to kill me.
I'm, my life is over right now, you know, and, and that's a horrible thing.
And it's hard to get past that.
Because, you know, I always joke, but it's not funny, like, you know,
I know Charles Manson was an orphan, but you know, like Jeffrey Dahmer, I'm
thinking of like serial killers, like did horrific things, chopping people
up and hiding them in his freezer.
You know, dozens of people.
Yet his mother was still sitting behind him in court, that was still her son.
She acknowledged he did wrong, but she still loved her son and was there.
And I'm thinking, my God, I was like the ultimate people pleasing child.
Like I, I strove for perfection.
I strove to do everything exactly right, I was a straight arrow.
You know, good kid, good grades, never got in trouble, never smoked, never drank,
like why?
I just wanted to be seen, I just wanted to be acknowledged
and there was just nothing.
I could, and so that, that's a hard thing.
I mean, I watched my barn cats reject some kittens sometimes.
But my God, when it's your mother, like, how can you, how can you
believe anybody ever would love you if your own mother can't?
Because she's the one person who's supposed to when nobody else does.
And that's a tough one.
Yeah.
So, so, you know, it's very interesting.
We talk about generational curses and traumas.
That choice to change, you know, that, that is really heavy.
And I'm still trying to pinpoint what makes us change and choose to not
follow that generational guidance.
Because I think this really deep and we need to really kind of pinpoint
the why and what makes the individual choose to go in a different direction.
Yeah, that's interesting because I don't have the answer to that.
I can only speak to my experience and what, what was different for me.
I think two things.
One of the biggest things was that we have to acknowledge the
fact that society progresses.
Because I'm generation X and I've noticed that the baby boomer generation,
which is the one that came before mine, baby boomers and older tend to
have come from that hush hush polite society where you don't talk about it.
I mean
women in the thirties, forties, and fifties, and sixties were
being, you know, abused by husbands.
You know, they put concealer over their eyes
and they hid, you know,
they had the nice wavy curls, you know, those fancy hairdos, and they kept their
head down when they went to the grocery store and nobody asked and nobody told
and it just was what it was, same with kids.
But we also had that, you know, we didn't have electronics back, you
know, even when I was a kid that if somebody had an issue with you, they
beat your butt on the school playground.
They beat your butt on your lawn outside your house, they came knocking on your
door looking for you and grabbed you by the cuff of your shirt, drug you
outside and beat the crap out of you.
And nobody's parent was stopping it.
And nobody, you know, you had a black eye, you had some bruises
and that's just how it was.
And you took it because you knew you probably, you know, had
done something to deserve it.
That's just how life was.
So I think to some extent, there was an acceptance.
And you add on to that, I mean, this is, I'm tying in spousal abuse and
child abuse because it is, it kind of does go hand in hand, obviously.
Um, but even as recent as the seventies when I was born, a woman in the
United States of America, all these freedoms we talk about now, a woman
could not file charges against her husband for domestic abuse or violence.
Oh my gosh.
And you know, the thing is, is that men get abused by women too.
But a man back then would oh, there was too much pride in being a man.
A man would never even admit that his wife was abusing.
So you have to remember that now that, I hate to say, I go back to the social
stuff, social media, the internet, really,
when did it come out?
1995 I think was the first time the internet was available to everybody, and
now that there's all this information and people are connecting and things are
being exposed, there, I think everything's kind of being blown open to where we
don't have to keep secrets anymore.
So I think that's partially why we are more vocal about it
and we're more, you know, we're bringing more awareness to things.
And thank goodness, because nobody should have to hide that stuff.
And I think I should have a right as a child, or as a wife, or if
it were a husband, or whatever it is, to go to somebody and say this
is happening and it needs to stop.
And that's where we're still struggling in this society.
Because you know they say seventy some percent of child abuse cases
are actually reported by teachers.
And that bothers me because you cannot tell me that if there's a
two parent household or even more than one child in a household that
they don't know what's going on.
And you can't tell me the neighbor isn't seeing it, or the bus driver
on the school bus, or the people at church, or at the library, or
wherever else this kid is going.
And it just pains me, it pains me because I was that kid.
I was that kid that also went to school with my head down, wearing long sleeves
when it was hot in the summer to hide the marks on my arms and, and on my legs.
And, and I wanted somebody to see, and on the very rare occasions, somebody
would say, Is there something going on?
Nope, nothing's, because I was terrified.
But we need people to be more involved.
And, and, you know, not necessarily push the child more to expose it,
but maybe bring more attention to it.
You know, there has to be consequences.
Because I look back at my situation and granted I haven't, I'm not really fully
aware of how child services works in my area, nevermind all areas of this
country, but in the nineties when they came into my life and I had a round
with them, they didn't do a whole lot.
They didn't do crap, honestly.
They interviewed my, my mother and stepfather's employees at their business
who said they were these great, great people who would never do that to me.
Well, they wanted their jobs, my goodness gracious.
I mean, ask somebody else, because let me tell you something,
child services didn't do anything.
And they left my brother, my little brother.
Cause my mother did end up reversing her tubal ligation and having a child
with my stepfather because I wasn't his.
He made that so blatantly a big part of my childhood that I wasn't
his, he wanted his own child.
So they ended up having a child.
But even when I was under investigation all of this stuff, they left
my little brother in the home.
And it just made me remember that book, I don't know if anyone has read this,
it's called A Child Called It.
I think David Pelzer is the author.
This came out back in the nineties.
But he was one of five children, one of the worst cases of
abuse in California history.
And he was the only one abused in that house by the mother and severely abused.
The other kids noticed it, would even leave the room, sometimes even
participate as far as helping the mother prepare or arrange for it.
And the husband, the father, was in the home.
And also the one thing that startled me in that book was, one of the times that the,
you know, the, the author was saying he, he, he knew he was about to get abused.
You know, his mother would tell him, Okay, this is happening now.
And I mean, she was like putting an iron on him and burning him, and
putting his hands on open flames on the, just doing horrific things to him.
And the dad was like, Okay, I'm going to take the other kids, the
other four kids out for ice cream.
Like, are you kidding me right now?
He knew that his wife was about to abuse.
But this is, this is the thing, granted that that's, you know,
there are these extraordinarily, you know, exceptional stories.
And, and mine is certainly not one of those.
But the fact that this happens every single day and nobody, even the people
in the home, don't do anything about it.
Because I'm going to tell you something.
When my book came out, um, it was released a little early.
So I got a phone call, said unknown number, and when I answered, I
recognized the voice, but you know how you can't quite place it, and
she said, Do you know who this is?
And I was like, I felt embarrassed, you know, like, I'm like,
I should know who this is.
But I didn't know who it was.
Anyway, she, she told me who she was.
It was somebody that, she was an adult in my life.
So she cut my hair.
She was my hairdresser, I guess you would say, when I was a little girl
from the time I was probably five or six all the way up through college.
And I mean, this is a hairdresser.
How often did I see her?
A few times a year?
She says, I'm so glad to hear your voice.
She says, I saw your book.
A friend of mine told me you released this book, and she said, You know,
I didn't know your stepfather.
I only saw your mother when she would bring you in.
But she says, Your mother was always so melancholy.
Like I knew there was something going on and I can tell looking at you every
time there was something going on.
And she said, I always thought I would look at the news and see that he had
killed you and your mother, like in some kind of like family murder, suicide thing.
And just leave your bodies at the side of the road dead.
So she says, I'm so glad you're okay.
And I mean, it was touching that she got in touch with me and
I was glad to hear from her.
But, again, it reiterated that, this frustration I have that if somebody
even remotely thought, I mean, why didn't you err on the side of caution?
Why didn't you alert somebody?
Why didn't you pull me aside and ask me what was going on?
Why am I forty-eight years old and just now hearing that somebody that
last saw me thirty years ago is telling me she's glad I'm alive.
And, and, and we have, you know, we have communicated since.
And I don't hold anybody responsible because at the end of the day, the
responsible party is the abuser.
But going back to child services, I just want to say one more thing.
And this is what really makes me angry about this.
And what really needs to still change in society is that, what do they do?
They took me out of the home temporarily.
Granted I got sent back, but they take the child out of the home.
Sometimes in the more severe cases or when they actually do their job and see
that this child needs help, the child gets whatever services, counseling,
therapy, whatever treatments they need.
Thank God.
But what about the abusers?
Why aren't they being removed from the home?
Why aren't they getting the treatment that they need?
Why aren't they being forced, I'm sorry, healing should be a choice,
and it's a lot of work, but why aren't they attempting to rehabilitate the
people that are doing these things?
Because until we go, you know, you can't just put a bandaid on something,
you have to go to the core of it.
That's what healing is when we're trying to heal.
But I can heal all day long, but you want to know something?
My mother and I are estranged.
My stepfather, he doesn't talk to me either, and I don't really
care about him, but there's no healing going on in their house.
Nobody has gone to therapy to face their trauma.
They are going through the same motions every day like nothing is
wrong, refusing to face it, and projecting it on to other people.
Me, mainly, because I'm the scapegoat.
Even though we have no contact, I'm still being talked about, lied about, and
scapegoated as the reason for all of their problems and all of their angst and woes.
And I think that is the most ridiculous thing.
We have to catch up, we have to start taking these parents out of the homes.
Stop with trying to fix the kid because there's nothing wrong with the kid,
there's something wrong with the parent.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's big problems and issues with the whole system, how we handle this.
And, you know, the, the big thing here, Dana, I think you really highlighted
is, awareness is being brought since the introduction of the internet.
And there's more people like me and you sitting, talking, and
then sharing our talk and people are going, Yeah, that's right.
And that's empowering.
So I think with the advent of the computer and the internet, there's so
much wrong with it too, but yet, it is giving some life saving, in a degree,
harmonious balance to discussion.
And I really think that is what's needed, is communication.
Because that's really how we fix things, is we communicate the problem and then we
can communicate a way to fix the problem.
So I really do think you just highlighted a big thing there.
The tipping point surely must have been that availability of the
internet to reach out to others.
Because we can see more than ever, I'm not alone.
And I think it's really huge what's being done here.
I like it a lot.
And that I will agree with.
Yeah, I agree with that because that's the one thing that, I mean,
I didn't even get on the internet or social, well, I should say internet,
I didn't get onto social media until probably 20, 21, I mean, it's very
recent, just the last couple of years.
But it's something that definitely, I don't think it's the cure all, but
I think it definitely helps to know.
Because I think we need to know that it's not just us because that helps
us realize that it's not personal.
I mean, even though we've internalized it as this is about me and who I
am, and, and I have no place, and I'm deficient and I'm not enough.
When we see, Oh, there's a whole group called, you know, Daughters of
Narcissistic Mothers and Daughters of Narcissistic Fathers and, and there's
thousands of people in this group.
Oh, I'm not alone.
And people are sharing, you know, snippets of their story.
And you're like, Oh my gosh, me too.
That happened to me.
Oh, but you know, this is what helped me work that out.
Or this is what I do.
And that's, and so to have that support, definitely, definitely helps you.
Because it's essentially, that's helping create that connection that
you didn't have early in childhood that, that made you feel this way.
That's right.
It's a good catalyst, that's for sure.
Dana, we could talk for hours on this and, you know, it just
seems like we just got started.
However, our time is short.
Uh, would you please let people know where they can find your book?
And do you have a call to action for people?
Yes, absolutely.
Number one, my website, danasdiaz.com, you will find the links for
both books, Gasping for Air and Choking on Shame on the website.
Links to Facebook, links to Instagram, you can email me, message me on social media.
I respond personally, I don't have any automated message.
So, you know, you will get a response actually from me and I'm happy to
hear from people, whatever it is.
And if I can't help you, I will direct you to whatever resources that
I think might be able to help you.
Um, call to action.
I would just, this is all I ever ask from anybody.
And it sounds so like, you know, like I want everyone to get
in a circle and sing Kumbaya.
But all I ever ask for people is just be kind and, you know, it's asking
you to have this domino effect.
Just start in your home.
If you have a roommate, a spouse, a kid, whoever you're living with, be
kind, give them grace, give yourself that same grace and that same kindness.
And I think if we can just start there with that small little piece, then
maybe we're going to go out in the world and spread it like that domino effect.
Because I mean, sometimes that really nasty, angry person, that
person that's just obstinate and rude, you know, I, I hate to say,
but sometimes they just need a hug.
Sometimes maybe they're like me, maybe just nobody loved them.
They may be a narcissist, but you know what?
You have nothing to lose by being kind, it's free.
Doesn't cost you anything, little effort.
So just be kind, please.
I love it.
Dana, you're a very powerful individual out there doing incredible work.
I want to say thank you for coming back, sharing it again here on
the Dead America Podcast with us.
I appreciate it.
Thank you again for having me back.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way,
please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.