Because even though I went through all of this work, I did all of that
work meant for my mental health.
You still get to a point in your life where you're like, okay, I'm
this person now what do I do with it?
And, and so that's where I come into play, you know?
Today, we are speaking with Susan Snow.
Susan is a trauma resilience coach, a speaker, and an author.
She is also the daughter of a slain Los Angeles Police Department Detective,
Thomas C. Williams, who was killed in the line of duty on October 31st, 1985.
Susan, could you please introduce yourself?
Let people know just a little more about you, please.
Sure, absolutely.
Uh, hi everyone.
Um, like he said, uh, I am the daughter of, uh, detective Tom Williams.
And, um, when I was seventeen, uh, he was a, a robbery/homicide
detective at the time.
And, um, I also had a six-year-old brother and, uh, it was Halloween night and my dad
was, uh, a lead detective on a case that he was testifying that morning in court.
And he and I chatted about it.
And, uh, I wanted to go to a party that night.
It was, I was seventeen, I was a teenager, I wanted to go out with my friends.
Uh, he said, Absolutely no, it's a school night.
And so, you know, he just said, uh, When we come home, When I
come home, we'll talk about it.
But the plan was that he was gonna leave court, go to my brother's school,
pick him up from school and come home.
Meanwhile, my mom and I would be home.
And so when I got home from school, I got ready for my night and my mom came home.
She was still in her costume from work, her work party.
And the phone rang.
And when it rang, I went and grabbed it 'cause I thought it was for me.
And it wasn't for me, it was a lady from my brother's school.
All she said was that there was a drive-by shooting and my dad was involved.
My mom came around the corner and I saw her so I handed her the phone immediately.
And I watched her demeanor and I watched her posture.
And as she was talking to this lady, I could just tell that it was bad.
She got off the phone and she said, We're going to the school.
So, school was about seven minutes from my childhood home.
We got there and the way that, uh, Faith Baptist is set up is there is
a parking lot right in the middle of the school and after school care got
out on the backside of the school.
So that's where we headed.
As we started heading there, um, it was nighttime by now, and I could just
see the sky was lit up by all of the, uh, police cars lights, and then there
was an ambulance in the road as well.
So we were walking and then she and I both caught, uh, my, my dad's truck,
so we started to run towards the truck.
And when we got closer, we saw that there was glass on the ground.
We rounded the corner, and there he was partially covered up with a white sheet.
And at that moment I watched my mom buckle and she started screaming,
and my teenage mind was not able to comprehend what I was seeing.
So what I ended up doing is focusing on the ambulance.
And my brain kept saying, Why, why, why isn't anybody helping him?
Where is everybody?
What?
Why isn't he being helped?
Soon enough, two officers came up and grabbed our arms and escorted us back into
the school where we went to an office and my mom was taken aside by some detectives.
I sat in the office just trying to comprehend what was happening
because there was so much chaos going on, and I still was not
comprehending what was happening.
I still was not comprehending that he was gone.
It wasn't until I heard two ladies talking in the office, they worked there, and
the one lady said that, that, uh, Mr.
Williams was deceased.
And at that point, my life shattered, my world shattered.
And all I can think of is getting up out of that chair and running
outta that room and running as far as I could from this nightmare.
But my legs and everything in my body felt like cement, I couldn't move.
Wasn't very long after that, my mom came to me and she said,
I'm sending you with a neighbor.
And I know that in that moment I wanted to run out of there
and run away from the scene.
But the kid part of me wanted to be with my family unit, I needed
to be with my mom and my brother.
At that point, I didn't even know where my brother was.
I didn't know if he was hurt, I didn't know anything.
I had no information.
All I knew is I was going with the neighbor.
And the neighbor picked me up, took her to her house, took me to her house.
And, uh, she had known my parents for years and she, herself as an adult,
was trying to comprehend everything.
And, uh, here she had, uh, his daughter who was totally inconsolable
at the point, at that point.
And she tried really hard to be there for me and, you know,
console me the best that she could.
But I had been dating this boy for about three months, and at that
point, all I wanted was my boyfriend.
So I asked her to call him at work.
And he, he was nineteen at the time.
And he showed up and he had no information.
So when he showed up at the door, he said, Grab your purse, grab your
jacket, let's go to the hospital.
What hospital is he at?
Where's your mom?
Where's your brother?
You know, all the normal, uh, questions that you would get.
And, um, I couldn't spit it out, I couldn't say the words.
But the more persistent he got, the more I just blurted it out, He's gone.
And he said, What do you mean he's gone?
And I said, He's gone.
He's not at a hospital.
And at that point, I watched my nineteen-year-old boyfriend drop
to his knees and start sobbing.
And both of us were just trying to navigate all of the things that
were going on in that very moment.
This was mid eighties.
So back then there was no talk of mental health, there was little known about PTSD,
and there were no resources for kids.
Not even LAPD had systems in place for children of fallen officers.
They really, um, focused on the wives, the widows, and the widowers.
And my poor neighbor had no idea what she was doing with us, you know,
she was just, she was trying to, um, work through her own emotions.
And like I said, it was very chaotic.
'Cause that night my quiet little neighborhood was overwrought with police
cars and, um, we had helicopters overhead.
And the media ascended because it was a, it was a huge story at the, at that time.
So when I finally did go home, um, there were cars in my driveway that I
didn't recognize, and we had police, um, we had armed police officers who
were in our front yard and our backyard.
And I, I went in the house and my house was filled with people,
I had no idea who they were.
I know now they were dignitaries and, uh, advocates and all kinds of people.
And I could hear my mom in the kitchen, um, faintly, I still
had no idea where my brother was.
And I, I literally just ran in my room and hid.
I didn't wanna talk to anybody, I didn't want any questions, uh, nothing.
And I had this feeling of, um, just wanting to hide, I just wanted to hide.
And the next day, uh, when I looked outside, 'cause I didn't
sleep, it was sunlight and we still had the police presence.
I finally got to see my brother, it was about 11 o'clock in the morning.
And I had heard him crying in the middle of the night, so I knew he was okay
and at home 'cause I had heard him cry.
But at that time, I had nothing left in me.
I couldn't even get up out of my bed at that point.
So I figured my mom would console him.
And when I did finally get to see him, it was the first time I could hug him,
and tell him I loved him, and tell him that we were gonna get through this.
Um, and so it, you know, it was just going from a normal
teenage life to this, was crazy.
It was surreal.
They didn't catch the men that were involved in my dad's murder for six days.
So we had police presence for six days and, um, I had bodyguards.
I mean, it was just nuts.
It was crazy, and I don't wish it on anyone.
Um,
it wasn't too long after the funeral, everything kind of died down a little
bit, my mom came to me and said that LAPD wanted to pay for us to go to therapy.
Well, at the time I thought, If you go to a therapist, that means you're crazy.
Because that was just my, that was my young mind, and I
didn't know anything different.
But I was also living in a life where I was in fog, I was
like walking around in a fog.
I wasn't even living, I was existing.
And I was dealing with a lot of depression, and I was, I
had suicidal ideation, although I didn't know what it was.
Um, and I was very anxious 'cause my dad was my protector and now he's gone.
And at the time, uh, I didn't have a really solid relationship with my mother.
It, it was a little bit on the toxic side, so trying to navigate that relationship
as well with my dad not being there.
And so when my mom voluntold me that I was going to therapy, I was like, All right.
I was kind of in that state of mind that if you pushed me in a direction,
that's the direction I would go.
So I did go to therapy and I met the therapist.
And in hindsight, I don't believe that this therapist was ready
to get into the weeds with me.
I don't think that he was trauma competent or informed for
that reason, for that manner.
And I was, um, I was really struggling, but at the same time, I was scared to
tell him what he was, what I was feeling, for the fear that he would lock me up.
You know, he'd send me to the looney bin and that would be it for me.
So I didn't say anything and I didn't know how to verbalize it anyways.
Um, he didn't, he didn't ask me, he didn't ask me the questions of, you know, what I
was feeling or what that night did to me,
which blows people's mind.
But if he's a therapist that didn't wanna get in the weeds with me, I get that.
If he asks that question, then he's in it and he better know how to
help me through it.
So for an entire year I saw this man.
And our sessions were really common, they were very shallow.
It was all about my relationship with my mom, my relationship with
my brother, my boyfriend, and school since I was a senior in high school.
And that was it.
And every week I was like, today's the day he's gonna help me feel better.
Today's the day.
And then I would leave and just not feel any better.
In fact, sometimes I felt worse.
And after a year of this, he looked at me and said, Susan, you're
a well-rounded young lady and I don't need to see you anymore.
You're gonna be fine for the rest of your life.
And I left that office and I was like, okay, that's it.
I've cracked, I'm crazy, not even a professional can help me.
I'm gonna have to figure this out on my own.
Which was terrifying because now I'm only, I'm still a, a kid, I'm eighteen.
And I just did what I did naturally, which is I created this emotional mask
based on what people told me I was.
So if someone said, Oh my gosh, you were so brave, you're so
strong, you're gonna be fine.
That was it, that was it.
And I wore that thing so well that no one on the exterior knew the
turmoil that was going on, no one.
And not even my boyfriend knew everything that was going on at the time.
I was scared to tell him because I thought he would hightail it out of there.
And he really, at the time, was the only thing that I had that was
positive in my life besides, you know, some of my close friends.
So I didn't tell him either.
And I lived like this.
I, I, I married him, we're still together almost forty years later.
Um, so I married him and we had two kids.
And in 97 we decided it was time to leave California.
I, I was ready to like, kind of put that part of my life aside and go
somewhere where no one knew me, no one knew the story, no one knew anything
and start over, quotations, start over.
Um, because little did I know that your pain and anguish and trauma goes
with you no matter where you are.
So geography didn't matter.
So we, we moved, uh, April of 97, and at the time I was working as a hairdresser.
I was working in a salon that was close to Littleton, Colorado.
And on April 20th, of 1999, I was working that day, uh, I had taken a
break from, uh, my client and went into the back room and turned on the TV.
We had a little tiny TV back there in our break room and up popped the live
coverage of the Columbine shootings.
I started having flashbacks, I turned pale, I started sweating, I could feel an,
an anxiety attack coming, and I was really confused, because remember, I was told I
was gonna be fine for the rest of my life.
So I didn't recognize what was happening to me.
And my colleagues did not know my story.
So when they saw me going through all of this, they were confused.
And they're like, We don't get it.
You're, you're not old enough to have kids there, we know you
don't live around that area.
What, what is happening to you?
And I couldn't answer it, I had no idea.
So what I did was, what I always did, I put that mask back on and
I went out and I finished my day.
Now everybody around me was so upset, crying, angry, I mean, you name it.
And I was just like, this isn't gonna affect me, I'm gonna finish my day, this
is gonna be fine and inside I was a mess.
But out exterior wise, no one saw it.
Nobody saw it.
The minute I walked through those doors to get in my car, everything flooded back.
Everything.
And I felt like I was spiraling.
Um, I had suicidal ideation, I, I had plans in my head.
But at the same time, I had this like internal fight.
Because even though I didn't wanna feel like this anymore, I had two babies
at home and I need to stay for them.
And so, um, I didn't know what I was gonna do and it wasn't until my husband
stopped me at the door, 'cause he's a very smart man, and he watched me spiral.
He saw it coming and he knew it was a slippery slope.
So he said, he told me, You have two choices, you either get help
or I'm putting you in a hospital.
And at that point I was so scared that I put up that white flag and I
was like, All right, I'll, I'll go to the doctor, I'll, I'll get some help.
And I made an appointment that afternoon to go see a physician, and
the physician put me on antidepressants because that's what they do.
And then he handed me a business card and he said, I want you to make
an appointment with this therapist.
And I literally laughed in his face because I said, Look, I tried this
fourteen years ago and it didn't work, so what makes you think it's gonna work now.
And he said, You know, honestly, you don't have a choice.
And so I made the appointment, and three minutes into the appointment,
I, I knew something was different.
She was asking me the questions.
And I felt safe with her, so I answered them.
I was allowing myself to be vulnerable with her.
And she looked at me after she heard my story and she said, Susan, everything
you've gone through since you were seventeen is normal because you have PTSD.
And I was like, Wait a minute, I didn't go to war.
I'm not in the military, what do you mean I have PTSD?
And she said, Nope.
She said, Anyone who goes through any type of trauma can experience PTSD.
But what you need to know about that is that it's not something that goes away,
it's something you learn to manage.
And in that moment, I realized I had hope for the first time that I had hope.
And that I had a person that I had been yearning to have all these
years, someone to be able to listen to me and guide me in the right way
so that I can heal from my trauma.
And I was so grateful in that moment, so grateful.
So that was the beginning of my journey of healing.
It, it's, it's a very fascinating story, Susan.
Um, I really wanna ask the first question here.
Did your family ever talk about what if, if this ever occurred,
before your father's passing?
Uh, did you ever sit down at the table and say, Look, I have this dangerous
job, and at any time, tragedy could strike and we all need to be able
to open up and talk about this.
Was there ever that time in your family?
No.
You know, I, I kind of had a false sense of security.
Because when he became a detective, in my mind, a detective comes in after.
So the, the, the, it's more of the processing, it's not being in the middle
of the crime or, you know, putting yourself in harm's way in that way.
And so I felt like dad had a desk job, you know, how, how dangerous is that?
We didn't think about retaliation or anything like
that, and this is what it was.
And so, and it had never happened before, so it wasn't even in our stratosphere.
You know, we just didn't even think about that.
I'm sure my mom and dad had, you know, conversations when he went into law
enforcement that this is a possibility.
But when it came to me, being as old as I was, and being able to
have those kind of conversations, I just felt like, you know, he had a
desk job, he came in after the fact.
You know, what harm could come to him?
So, yeah, it was never a conversation with, especially with me and him.
So what was your support system like before the incident
and then after the incident?
Was there ever any, you know, the thin blue line brotherhood?
They are supposed to take care of each other.
Was there support from them before and after?
And what was that like?
Um, you know, my dad was pretty close with a lot of the guys that he worked
with, so they were kind of like family.
Um, the one thing I can say about my dad was he was a very present person.
So when you were with him, he always made you feel like you were the
most important person in the room.
And anyone who knew him, whether, you know, he worked with them,
or trained them, or whatever, will say the same thing.
And so there was always that feeling of, you know, if something had happened,
they would be there for his family.
But afterwards, yes, there was absolutely that.
They came, they did whatever they could to help my mom around the house.
The following week, my brother had a birthday and he turned seven.
And so my mom and dad had bought him a bike and they wanted, my dad
wanted to teach him how to ride his bike, but he didn't get that chance.
So, um, there were about, I, I don't know, twenty detectives that showed
up at our door on his birthday and showed my brother how to ride a bike.
Um, and they came around quite a bit, you know, there was a lot of police
officers that, even though they weren't like in our face behind the
scenes, they would look out for us.
Um, my mom would have drive-bys all the time where the, um, the guys that
were on duty would drive by the house just to make sure she was okay and
nothing, you know, nothing was awry.
Um, and there was a lot of that going on.
I had no idea until much, much, like one of 'em, I just realized, like I just got a
letter from his wife, he has since passed.
But, uh, his wife read my book and she, um, she reached out to me by
email and told me that he always, he was one of the officers that escorted
us into the office that night.
So he would always kind of keep an eye on my mom and my brother.
And, um, and, and that was really bittersweet, um, especially
knowing that he is no longer here, and I didn't even know about it.
My mom knew about it, but she never told me.
Which is not a shocker.
Yeah, that's how it works.
So, you know, yeah.
Your, your brother was there when it happened and, you know, your father kind
of told him to get down and get out of the way, so I'm sure he's, he's going through
a lot of the same and maybe a little more.
Uh, do you guys ever talk about what happened and do you reminisce about it?
Uh, yeah.
I try not to.
And the reason is, I mean, he and I have talked about a lot of things.
Um, I didn't have a relationship with him for many years just
because at the time when he was an adolescent into early teens, he
started getting into some trouble.
Um, and he was not making good choices, let's just put it that way.
And, uh, headed down the drug route.
My mom was a drinker and my dad, my brother was, uh, an addict.
And so, um, I kind of, and we're ten years apart, so I distance
myself a lot from that drama.
Um, but as he got older and I got to know him as an adult and he got to know me as
an adult, we were able to start healing our relationship about seven years ago.
And in that, we were, it was literally a comparison of, comparison of notes.
Um, which was healing, but at the same time, it's like, the one thing
that he could tell me is that, at the time of the incident, all the focus
went on to him and my, and my mother.
And, and, and of course it would, right?
But I got pushed aside.
Um, the media didn't even realize or recognize that he
had a daughter for two days.
And so I felt very pushed aside, very not important.
Um, and he knew that and recognized that and had a lot
of shame and guilt around that.
So we were able to heal through those conversations.
Um, and now we're very, very close.
And he's doing great and he is, you know, he married the love of his life.
He has a daughter in California, he's a stepdad, he's now a papa
to two babies, and, um, you know, he's doing really, really well now.
He has visceral reactions, um, he has, it, it leads to, to some
physical issues that he has if we bring up, if he gets overly stressed.
So I told him when I wrote the book, you can read this or you don't have to.
You can read it along with your therapist.
Um, I don't wanna put any more pressure on him and I definitely don't wanna
cause him any more health issues.
So, um, I just told him, you know, when you're, when it's
time, if you wanna read it, great.
If you don't ever wanna read it, that's fine too.
I totally get it.
Um, so we, we have been able to, we've been able to like talk about that night
and what he saw and um, and I was able to kind of tell him that, you know, it
made me sad that he had so much shame and so much guilt about, even though
he was six years old, that there was nothing he could do to help the situation.
There was nothing he could do.
But he lived with survivor's guilt for a really long time.
And, and I, you know, he had to hear it from me that it was okay to have
those feelings and just make sure that he knew that that was valid.
You know, it was a valid emotion to have.
However, you know, I don't feel that way.
Uh, no one else feels that way, and so he needs to learn to let that go
so that he can move on with his life.
Yeah.
Well, anytime we deal with these traumatic experiences, especially as
children, because that's when it's most traumatizing, uh, in my opinion.
Uh, so
there's, there's a lot of ways people can go, but you chose to start
speaking out and become an advocate.
What was that tipping point like and why did you choose to start speaking out?
Well, for me, part of the reason I wrote my book was, um, when you go through
something like that, that's very much in, uh, you know, out there in the open
and people make up in their minds your story and a lot of times their story did
not align with who I was as a person.
And so when I turned fifty years old, there's something about fifty, I don't
know, but I drew a line in the sand.
I drew a line in the sand and I said, It has to happen now,
I have to write my book now.
And it took me four and a half years to write it.
I had to be in the right mental state in order to do this, and I had to have the
tools to manage the emotions that would come up throughout the writing process.
And I did, I, I felt confident in knowing that I would be able
to pull myself out of whatever emotion that I was headed towards.
There was a lot of fear involved in writing this book, as well,
for a couple of different reasons.
When I sat back and I realized what kind of book I wanted to write, which
was a memoir, I knew that I needed to be a hundred percent authentic.
And in doing that, I had to tell, not only my story, but I had to
tell other people's stories as well.
And in doing that, I knew that part of those people would
be my mom and my, my husband.
And I, when I thought about it, it was scary because my mom and
I were hanging on by a thread.
You know, our relationship has never been healthy and, uh, my
mom is a narcissistic parent.
And so it was difficult, right?
So I had to be okay with the outcome, whether that was totally releasing our
relationship or opening a conversation.
Also with my husband, we've been through so much in almost forty years together and
I was afraid that this, 'cause I do talk about issues that we had in our marriage,
that this would reopen some old wounds and cause harm to my relationship with him.
The third thing that I was fearful was, my safety.
Because when the book came out, two of the men were still incarcerated.
One of them had already been released in 2017, so I was a little afraid
of retaliation, coming from my background, because we were targets
at one point, the entire family.
Um, so all those old feelings came back up.
But what I realized that there was so much pain and anger
revolving around my dad's death.
And, and the fact that my brother was involved and saw it.
In the law enforcement world especially, um, I felt like if people saw the healing
I did and the resiliency I have, that it would allow them to heal as well.
And I also realized that there are faceless people out there
that maybe are afraid of starting their healing journey from trauma.
That maybe by them seeing my book and reading my book and hearing my
message, that it would give them, um,
an idea of they weren't alone.
You know, just making sure that they understood that they aren't alone and
you can get through things like this.
You can move through this, these things, you can find resiliency
on the other side of it.
So every time I had those fears pop up and they came, they popped up
frequently, I always put my purpose behind the writing of the book.
Which was the faceless people out there that needed to hear my message, that
needed to hear they weren't alone, and needed to hear that they can heal from
whatever trauma that they've gone through.
Yeah, I, I think it's so important.
You know, they, they say coping with things can be difficult.
I, I say it is going to be difficult no matter how, how strong we are.
When hiccups hit us, it's a roadblock.
And sometimes our mind, it, it stumbles when those things happen.
So what, what is the best thing that has come out of this instance in your life?
Oh gosh, the best thing, I, I found my purpose.
Um, I found my purpose.
And so when I speak to people, um, I'm coming from a place of, I
understand where they're coming from.
And my biggest message that I put out to people when they meet
me is, that I am a safe space.
You can be vulnerable with me, you can trust me, there is no judgment.
I think a lot of people go into therapy and they're afraid to be
vulnerable because they're afraid they're gonna be judged for whatever
it is that's coming out of their mouth.
And I can tell you right now, if you have a therapist that has any kind of judgment,
you get up from that chair and you leave the office because that's not your person.
Um, and I had to learn that, you know?
And I was, I was grateful it only took me two therapists to figure that out.
However, I tell people all the time, this is your healing.
It's nobody else's healing.
You have every right to interview your therapist, make sure that that
therapist knows your type of trauma.
Not that they lump you into one generalization of what trauma is,
because every trauma is different.
So if they don't know what type of trauma you've gone through, they're gonna have
a hard time guiding you in the right way and nurturing you along the way.
And so I tell everybody, like, make sure that you're interviewing them.
Ask that question, Is this the type of trauma that you specialize in?
Or how many, how many clients have you dealt with, with my type of trauma?
And if you feel like you can be vulnerable with that person, if you feel like that's
a safe space for you, I know that being vulnerable is one of the most scariest
thing in the whole wide world, to open yourself up and be that raw, I get it.
I've been there, I've done that.
And I, and I recognize that, and that's okay.
That's okay, that's valid.
However, if you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable with that therapist, with that
professional, with that coach, with that spiritual leader, whatever it is that you
seek, the real true healing is not gonna happen in the way that you need it to.
So it's really important.
Yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
That, that is.
That is 100% truth and it's rock solid advice.
So I, I found podcasting and I found that this release mechanism and
this journey of education has helped me grow immensely in my journey.
Also my wife's journey.
And we really find comfort in learning from others and
what they have went through.
This is a solid way to be able to turn on and just listen to other people
and how they have went through and overcome different situations in life.
And you don't even have to say a word.
So I found that podcasting can be a safe space and you can be wherever you are.
So when you don't have that trust in somebody, there's
always that mechanism of hope.
And that's what Susan and I are here doing today, is providing that hope
and that availability for individuals that might be seeking a better way.
And we might be a doorstep to that therapist for them because
we all need help, don't we, Susan?
Absolutely, absolutely.
You know, it's, it's, and where I come into play as a coach, because even though
I went through all of this work, I did all of that work meant for my mental
health, you still get to a point in your life where you're like, Okay, I'm
this person now, what do I do with it?
And, and so that's where I come into play.
You know, we, we, I meet you where you are, right?
If you still need, if you still have some healing to do, I'm not a
therapist, but I know enough to be able to, um, move you past some of that
so that you're able to move forward.
Whether it's in your relationship, whether it's parenting, you know,
being a mom or a dad, or, you know, in your career, in, you know, in your
business life, your professional life.
So, um, that's where I come into play as far as being a resiliency coach.
Yes.
And, and life skill, it, it really is the defining factor in being an expert.
You know, a white coat does not make you an expert.
But I can guarantee you after you're fifty years old and you've been married
over forty years, that's a lot of experience that can help many people.
I've been with my wife and married, we got together in 1983.
We've been married since 1985, and it's the best thing and the worst
thing that's ever happened in my life.
But I am very thankful for the experience and the transition that
led me to where I am here today.
And that's the beauty of the experience factor.
Being over fifty, have a lot to offer.
And there's no way anyone can deny that.
So I highly encourage you to keep going.
And most of all, I wanna say thank you for sharing here today.
Do you have anything else you'd like to add to our conversation or
give our listeners a call to action?
Yeah, so, um, a couple of things.
I always end with one.
Um, if you're out there and you're listening to this, just know that
you're not alone and there is a person out there that can help you heal.
The one thing I can say personally is that doing the work and healing through
my trauma and finding resiliency,
the fact that I don't have that pain hold it, held over
my head anymore is priceless.
And that's what I want for everyone, I want everyone to feel that.
And so just knowing that you're not alone and that's not something
that I heard as a young lady.
Um, I felt very alone.
And so it's always my, it's always my message to people.
And you know, like I said, um, life is messy and we do get trauma along the way
and you can also find the healing through that trauma.
And once you have healed through a trauma and you've worked, done
some of the work, when things come up in life, you're more apt to cope
with them in a more healthy way.
So it's very important for you to take time out for yourself.
I know a lot of people heal for others, they heal for their children, they
try to heal for, you know, whoever else, you need to heal for yourself.
And you'll see once you've healed yourself and healed your wounds,
that it ripples out and the people around you recognize that.
So then now you're in it together instead of on an island alone.
And that's, that's really important in your journey.
Yeah.
How can people reach out and get in touch and work with you?
Sure.
So, um, if you want the book, I'll tell you where to get the book.
The book is The Other Side of the Gun.
My Journey from Trauma to Resiliency.
It is on Amazon and it is in Kindle form.
So if you're a Kindle Unlimited, uh, member, you can read my book for free.
All I ask is for reviews.
Um, I am on Instagram, Susan underscore Snow 1.
I am on TikTok and I have a website.
My website is great 'cause it gives information on my speaking, it also
gives, uh, information on my coaching and a little bit about my book.
So that is susansnowspeaks.com.
Susan, it's remarkable what you're doing out there.
I thank you for doing it, and thank you so much for sharing here today.
I wish you the best.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for joining us today.
If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way,
please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another
great episode of the Dead America Podcast.
I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.