1 00:00:00,630 --> 00:00:04,650 Because even though I went through all of this work, I did all of that 2 00:00:04,650 --> 00:00:06,570 work meant for my mental health. 3 00:00:07,650 --> 00:00:11,610 You still get to a point in your life where you're like, okay, I'm 4 00:00:11,610 --> 00:00:13,710 this person now what do I do with it? 5 00:00:14,850 --> 00:00:19,425 And, and so that's where I come into play, you know? 6 00:00:54,585 --> 00:00:57,465 Today, we are speaking with Susan Snow. 7 00:00:58,275 --> 00:01:02,805 Susan is a trauma resilience coach, a speaker, and an author. 8 00:01:03,315 --> 00:01:08,865 She is also the daughter of a slain Los Angeles Police Department Detective, 9 00:01:09,390 --> 00:01:15,780 Thomas C. Williams, who was killed in the line of duty on October 31st, 1985. 10 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,780 Susan, could you please introduce yourself? 11 00:01:18,780 --> 00:01:21,360 Let people know just a little more about you, please. 12 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:24,420 Sure, absolutely. 13 00:01:25,140 --> 00:01:26,340 Uh, hi everyone. 14 00:01:27,750 --> 00:01:34,590 Um, like he said, uh, I am the daughter of, uh, detective Tom Williams. 15 00:01:35,370 --> 00:01:43,945 And, um, when I was seventeen, uh, he was a, a robbery/homicide 16 00:01:43,964 --> 00:01:45,134 detective at the time. 17 00:01:45,764 --> 00:01:55,964 And, um, I also had a six-year-old brother and, uh, it was Halloween night and my dad 18 00:01:56,024 --> 00:02:04,335 was, uh, a lead detective on a case that he was testifying that morning in court. 19 00:02:05,505 --> 00:02:08,115 And he and I chatted about it. 20 00:02:08,445 --> 00:02:11,025 And, uh, I wanted to go to a party that night. 21 00:02:11,025 --> 00:02:15,165 It was, I was seventeen, I was a teenager, I wanted to go out with my friends. 22 00:02:16,335 --> 00:02:19,875 Uh, he said, Absolutely no, it's a school night. 23 00:02:21,015 --> 00:02:24,975 And so, you know, he just said, uh, When we come home, When I 24 00:02:24,975 --> 00:02:26,685 come home, we'll talk about it. 25 00:02:26,745 --> 00:02:31,365 But the plan was that he was gonna leave court, go to my brother's school, 26 00:02:31,365 --> 00:02:33,345 pick him up from school and come home. 27 00:02:33,855 --> 00:02:35,775 Meanwhile, my mom and I would be home. 28 00:02:37,275 --> 00:02:43,455 And so when I got home from school, I got ready for my night and my mom came home. 29 00:02:43,455 --> 00:02:47,535 She was still in her costume from work, her work party. 30 00:02:48,945 --> 00:02:50,085 And the phone rang. 31 00:02:51,045 --> 00:02:54,765 And when it rang, I went and grabbed it 'cause I thought it was for me. 32 00:02:55,515 --> 00:02:59,625 And it wasn't for me, it was a lady from my brother's school. 33 00:03:00,614 --> 00:03:04,484 All she said was that there was a drive-by shooting and my dad was involved. 34 00:03:06,315 --> 00:03:10,635 My mom came around the corner and I saw her so I handed her the phone immediately. 35 00:03:11,595 --> 00:03:15,015 And I watched her demeanor and I watched her posture. 36 00:03:15,015 --> 00:03:20,054 And as she was talking to this lady, I could just tell that it was bad. 37 00:03:21,225 --> 00:03:24,135 She got off the phone and she said, We're going to the school. 38 00:03:25,454 --> 00:03:30,330 So, school was about seven minutes from my childhood home. 39 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:36,090 We got there and the way that, uh, Faith Baptist is set up is there is 40 00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:41,670 a parking lot right in the middle of the school and after school care got 41 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:43,410 out on the backside of the school. 42 00:03:43,950 --> 00:03:45,270 So that's where we headed. 43 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:53,685 As we started heading there, um, it was nighttime by now, and I could just 44 00:03:53,685 --> 00:03:59,685 see the sky was lit up by all of the, uh, police cars lights, and then there 45 00:03:59,685 --> 00:04:01,695 was an ambulance in the road as well. 46 00:04:02,984 --> 00:04:10,765 So we were walking and then she and I both caught, uh, my, my dad's truck, 47 00:04:11,415 --> 00:04:13,545 so we started to run towards the truck. 48 00:04:14,595 --> 00:04:17,565 And when we got closer, we saw that there was glass on the ground. 49 00:04:18,224 --> 00:04:23,354 We rounded the corner, and there he was partially covered up with a white sheet. 50 00:04:24,615 --> 00:04:29,895 And at that moment I watched my mom buckle and she started screaming, 51 00:04:31,215 --> 00:04:39,375 and my teenage mind was not able to comprehend what I was seeing. 52 00:04:40,544 --> 00:04:43,724 So what I ended up doing is focusing on the ambulance. 53 00:04:44,835 --> 00:04:48,735 And my brain kept saying, Why, why, why isn't anybody helping him? 54 00:04:49,575 --> 00:04:50,475 Where is everybody? 55 00:04:50,475 --> 00:04:50,745 What? 56 00:04:50,805 --> 00:04:52,185 Why isn't he being helped? 57 00:04:53,685 --> 00:04:58,995 Soon enough, two officers came up and grabbed our arms and escorted us back into 58 00:04:58,995 --> 00:05:06,345 the school where we went to an office and my mom was taken aside by some detectives. 59 00:05:07,305 --> 00:05:12,435 I sat in the office just trying to comprehend what was happening 60 00:05:12,780 --> 00:05:18,599 because there was so much chaos going on, and I still was not 61 00:05:18,599 --> 00:05:20,370 comprehending what was happening. 62 00:05:20,670 --> 00:05:23,849 I still was not comprehending that he was gone. 63 00:05:25,260 --> 00:05:30,960 It wasn't until I heard two ladies talking in the office, they worked there, and 64 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,005 the one lady said that, that, uh, Mr. 65 00:05:34,005 --> 00:05:35,310 Williams was deceased. 66 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:41,400 And at that point, my life shattered, my world shattered. 67 00:05:43,260 --> 00:05:46,440 And all I can think of is getting up out of that chair and running 68 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,250 outta that room and running as far as I could from this nightmare. 69 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,370 But my legs and everything in my body felt like cement, I couldn't move. 70 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,710 Wasn't very long after that, my mom came to me and she said, 71 00:06:01,710 --> 00:06:03,210 I'm sending you with a neighbor. 72 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:09,720 And I know that in that moment I wanted to run out of there 73 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,190 and run away from the scene. 74 00:06:12,345 --> 00:06:17,805 But the kid part of me wanted to be with my family unit, I needed 75 00:06:17,805 --> 00:06:19,575 to be with my mom and my brother. 76 00:06:19,935 --> 00:06:22,425 At that point, I didn't even know where my brother was. 77 00:06:22,425 --> 00:06:26,415 I didn't know if he was hurt, I didn't know anything. 78 00:06:26,415 --> 00:06:27,915 I had no information. 79 00:06:28,785 --> 00:06:30,795 All I knew is I was going with the neighbor. 80 00:06:32,115 --> 00:06:36,615 And the neighbor picked me up, took her to her house, took me to her house. 81 00:06:36,645 --> 00:06:42,925 And, uh, she had known my parents for years and she, herself as an adult, 82 00:06:42,945 --> 00:06:44,895 was trying to comprehend everything. 83 00:06:45,615 --> 00:06:52,995 And, uh, here she had, uh, his daughter who was totally inconsolable 84 00:06:52,995 --> 00:06:54,525 at the point, at that point. 85 00:06:55,755 --> 00:07:00,195 And she tried really hard to be there for me and, you know, 86 00:07:00,615 --> 00:07:02,505 console me the best that she could. 87 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:07,455 But I had been dating this boy for about three months, and at that 88 00:07:07,455 --> 00:07:09,675 point, all I wanted was my boyfriend. 89 00:07:10,575 --> 00:07:12,974 So I asked her to call him at work. 90 00:07:14,205 --> 00:07:16,515 And he, he was nineteen at the time. 91 00:07:17,985 --> 00:07:22,034 And he showed up and he had no information. 92 00:07:22,155 --> 00:07:26,235 So when he showed up at the door, he said, Grab your purse, grab your 93 00:07:26,235 --> 00:07:28,065 jacket, let's go to the hospital. 94 00:07:28,455 --> 00:07:29,715 What hospital is he at? 95 00:07:29,715 --> 00:07:30,435 Where's your mom? 96 00:07:30,435 --> 00:07:31,215 Where's your brother? 97 00:07:31,275 --> 00:07:34,664 You know, all the normal, uh, questions that you would get. 98 00:07:35,914 --> 00:07:39,525 And, um, I couldn't spit it out, I couldn't say the words. 99 00:07:40,814 --> 00:07:45,630 But the more persistent he got, the more I just blurted it out, He's gone. 100 00:07:47,820 --> 00:07:49,500 And he said, What do you mean he's gone? 101 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:50,490 And I said, He's gone. 102 00:07:50,490 --> 00:07:51,750 He's not at a hospital. 103 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,460 And at that point, I watched my nineteen-year-old boyfriend drop 104 00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:58,530 to his knees and start sobbing. 105 00:08:00,030 --> 00:08:04,440 And both of us were just trying to navigate all of the things that 106 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,060 were going on in that very moment. 107 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,030 This was mid eighties. 108 00:08:10,065 --> 00:08:15,615 So back then there was no talk of mental health, there was little known about PTSD, 109 00:08:16,425 --> 00:08:18,825 and there were no resources for kids. 110 00:08:19,005 --> 00:08:25,575 Not even LAPD had systems in place for children of fallen officers. 111 00:08:26,685 --> 00:08:32,539 They really, um, focused on the wives, the widows, and the widowers. 112 00:08:35,535 --> 00:08:39,495 And my poor neighbor had no idea what she was doing with us, you know, 113 00:08:39,495 --> 00:08:45,915 she was just, she was trying to, um, work through her own emotions. 114 00:08:47,145 --> 00:08:49,005 And like I said, it was very chaotic. 115 00:08:49,035 --> 00:08:55,615 'Cause that night my quiet little neighborhood was overwrought with police 116 00:08:55,635 --> 00:09:00,195 cars and, um, we had helicopters overhead. 117 00:09:00,245 --> 00:09:07,545 And the media ascended because it was a, it was a huge story at the, at that time. 118 00:09:08,655 --> 00:09:14,085 So when I finally did go home, um, there were cars in my driveway that I 119 00:09:14,085 --> 00:09:24,015 didn't recognize, and we had police, um, we had armed police officers who 120 00:09:24,015 --> 00:09:26,445 were in our front yard and our backyard. 121 00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:31,260 And I, I went in the house and my house was filled with people, 122 00:09:31,590 --> 00:09:33,180 I had no idea who they were. 123 00:09:34,050 --> 00:09:40,800 I know now they were dignitaries and, uh, advocates and all kinds of people. 124 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:48,360 And I could hear my mom in the kitchen, um, faintly, I still 125 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,160 had no idea where my brother was. 126 00:09:52,214 --> 00:09:55,064 And I, I literally just ran in my room and hid. 127 00:09:55,275 --> 00:10:00,165 I didn't wanna talk to anybody, I didn't want any questions, uh, nothing. 128 00:10:01,785 --> 00:10:07,694 And I had this feeling of, um, just wanting to hide, I just wanted to hide. 129 00:10:08,060 --> 00:10:14,655 And the next day, uh, when I looked outside, 'cause I didn't 130 00:10:14,655 --> 00:10:19,875 sleep, it was sunlight and we still had the police presence. 131 00:10:21,435 --> 00:10:25,395 I finally got to see my brother, it was about 11 o'clock in the morning. 132 00:10:26,655 --> 00:10:31,694 And I had heard him crying in the middle of the night, so I knew he was okay 133 00:10:31,694 --> 00:10:34,035 and at home 'cause I had heard him cry. 134 00:10:34,454 --> 00:10:38,415 But at that time, I had nothing left in me. 135 00:10:38,475 --> 00:10:41,084 I couldn't even get up out of my bed at that point. 136 00:10:42,375 --> 00:10:44,714 So I figured my mom would console him. 137 00:10:46,469 --> 00:10:51,449 And when I did finally get to see him, it was the first time I could hug him, 138 00:10:52,349 --> 00:10:55,949 and tell him I loved him, and tell him that we were gonna get through this. 139 00:10:57,089 --> 00:11:04,800 Um, and so it, you know, it was just going from a normal 140 00:11:05,010 --> 00:11:10,230 teenage life to this, was crazy. 141 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:11,430 It was surreal. 142 00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:17,010 They didn't catch the men that were involved in my dad's murder for six days. 143 00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:25,830 So we had police presence for six days and, um, I had bodyguards. 144 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,440 I mean, it was just nuts. 145 00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:31,140 It was crazy, and I don't wish it on anyone. 146 00:11:32,190 --> 00:11:32,760 Um, 147 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,270 it wasn't too long after the funeral, everything kind of died down a little 148 00:11:39,270 --> 00:11:45,720 bit, my mom came to me and said that LAPD wanted to pay for us to go to therapy. 149 00:11:46,530 --> 00:11:51,570 Well, at the time I thought, If you go to a therapist, that means you're crazy. 150 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:57,240 Because that was just my, that was my young mind, and I 151 00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:58,320 didn't know anything different. 152 00:12:00,180 --> 00:12:03,959 But I was also living in a life where I was in fog, I was 153 00:12:03,959 --> 00:12:05,699 like walking around in a fog. 154 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,489 I wasn't even living, I was existing. 155 00:12:10,170 --> 00:12:17,010 And I was dealing with a lot of depression, and I was, I 156 00:12:17,010 --> 00:12:20,609 had suicidal ideation, although I didn't know what it was. 157 00:12:21,420 --> 00:12:26,699 Um, and I was very anxious 'cause my dad was my protector and now he's gone. 158 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:35,040 And at the time, uh, I didn't have a really solid relationship with my mother. 159 00:12:35,609 --> 00:12:42,839 It, it was a little bit on the toxic side, so trying to navigate that relationship 160 00:12:42,839 --> 00:12:45,479 as well with my dad not being there. 161 00:12:46,844 --> 00:12:52,469 And so when my mom voluntold me that I was going to therapy, I was like, All right. 162 00:12:53,610 --> 00:12:57,480 I was kind of in that state of mind that if you pushed me in a direction, 163 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,160 that's the direction I would go. 164 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,470 So I did go to therapy and I met the therapist. 165 00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:10,800 And in hindsight, I don't believe that this therapist was ready 166 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,810 to get into the weeds with me. 167 00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:19,680 I don't think that he was trauma competent or informed for 168 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:22,260 that reason, for that manner. 169 00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:29,400 And I was, um, I was really struggling, but at the same time, I was scared to 170 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:35,760 tell him what he was, what I was feeling, for the fear that he would lock me up. 171 00:13:36,780 --> 00:13:40,800 You know, he'd send me to the looney bin and that would be it for me. 172 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,319 So I didn't say anything and I didn't know how to verbalize it anyways. 173 00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:57,405 Um, he didn't, he didn't ask me, he didn't ask me the questions of, you know, what I 174 00:13:57,405 --> 00:14:00,675 was feeling or what that night did to me, 175 00:14:03,225 --> 00:14:05,055 which blows people's mind. 176 00:14:05,295 --> 00:14:09,915 But if he's a therapist that didn't wanna get in the weeds with me, I get that. 177 00:14:11,415 --> 00:14:16,485 If he asks that question, then he's in it and he better know how to 178 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,599 help me through it. 179 00:14:20,099 --> 00:14:23,640 So for an entire year I saw this man. 180 00:14:23,819 --> 00:14:29,609 And our sessions were really common, they were very shallow. 181 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:35,609 It was all about my relationship with my mom, my relationship with 182 00:14:35,609 --> 00:14:41,219 my brother, my boyfriend, and school since I was a senior in high school. 183 00:14:42,599 --> 00:14:43,260 And that was it. 184 00:14:44,445 --> 00:14:48,495 And every week I was like, today's the day he's gonna help me feel better. 185 00:14:48,495 --> 00:14:49,665 Today's the day. 186 00:14:49,695 --> 00:14:53,475 And then I would leave and just not feel any better. 187 00:14:53,685 --> 00:14:56,055 In fact, sometimes I felt worse. 188 00:14:57,225 --> 00:15:02,475 And after a year of this, he looked at me and said, Susan, you're 189 00:15:02,475 --> 00:15:06,225 a well-rounded young lady and I don't need to see you anymore. 190 00:15:06,855 --> 00:15:08,775 You're gonna be fine for the rest of your life. 191 00:15:11,985 --> 00:15:16,395 And I left that office and I was like, okay, that's it. 192 00:15:16,455 --> 00:15:21,375 I've cracked, I'm crazy, not even a professional can help me. 193 00:15:21,885 --> 00:15:24,015 I'm gonna have to figure this out on my own. 194 00:15:25,635 --> 00:15:32,365 Which was terrifying because now I'm only, I'm still a, a kid, I'm eighteen. 195 00:15:33,615 --> 00:15:44,415 And I just did what I did naturally, which is I created this emotional mask 196 00:15:44,505 --> 00:15:47,145 based on what people told me I was. 197 00:15:47,145 --> 00:15:52,005 So if someone said, Oh my gosh, you were so brave, you're so 198 00:15:52,005 --> 00:15:54,675 strong, you're gonna be fine. 199 00:15:54,705 --> 00:15:57,585 That was it, that was it. 200 00:15:57,675 --> 00:16:03,465 And I wore that thing so well that no one on the exterior knew the 201 00:16:03,465 --> 00:16:06,435 turmoil that was going on, no one. 202 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,689 And not even my boyfriend knew everything that was going on at the time. 203 00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:18,450 I was scared to tell him because I thought he would hightail it out of there. 204 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,250 And he really, at the time, was the only thing that I had that was 205 00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:27,930 positive in my life besides, you know, some of my close friends. 206 00:16:29,460 --> 00:16:32,010 So I didn't tell him either. 207 00:16:33,569 --> 00:16:36,675 And I lived like this. 208 00:16:36,675 --> 00:16:41,745 I, I, I married him, we're still together almost forty years later. 209 00:16:43,065 --> 00:16:46,305 Um, so I married him and we had two kids. 210 00:16:46,395 --> 00:16:51,525 And in 97 we decided it was time to leave California. 211 00:16:51,585 --> 00:16:58,605 I, I was ready to like, kind of put that part of my life aside and go 212 00:16:58,605 --> 00:17:03,385 somewhere where no one knew me, no one knew the story, no one knew anything 213 00:17:04,155 --> 00:17:08,895 and start over, quotations, start over. 214 00:17:10,694 --> 00:17:19,694 Um, because little did I know that your pain and anguish and trauma goes 215 00:17:19,694 --> 00:17:21,435 with you no matter where you are. 216 00:17:22,244 --> 00:17:23,984 So geography didn't matter. 217 00:17:26,534 --> 00:17:32,534 So we, we moved, uh, April of 97, and at the time I was working as a hairdresser. 218 00:17:33,645 --> 00:17:36,725 I was working in a salon that was close to Littleton, Colorado. 219 00:17:38,205 --> 00:17:44,055 And on April 20th, of 1999, I was working that day, uh, I had taken a 220 00:17:44,055 --> 00:17:48,765 break from, uh, my client and went into the back room and turned on the TV. 221 00:17:48,795 --> 00:17:54,585 We had a little tiny TV back there in our break room and up popped the live 222 00:17:54,585 --> 00:17:56,775 coverage of the Columbine shootings. 223 00:17:59,835 --> 00:18:08,215 I started having flashbacks, I turned pale, I started sweating, I could feel an, 224 00:18:08,254 --> 00:18:17,055 an anxiety attack coming, and I was really confused, because remember, I was told I 225 00:18:17,055 --> 00:18:18,825 was gonna be fine for the rest of my life. 226 00:18:19,455 --> 00:18:21,885 So I didn't recognize what was happening to me. 227 00:18:22,335 --> 00:18:24,315 And my colleagues did not know my story. 228 00:18:25,185 --> 00:18:28,455 So when they saw me going through all of this, they were confused. 229 00:18:29,145 --> 00:18:31,275 And they're like, We don't get it. 230 00:18:31,275 --> 00:18:34,545 You're, you're not old enough to have kids there, we know you 231 00:18:34,545 --> 00:18:36,435 don't live around that area. 232 00:18:36,495 --> 00:18:38,385 What, what is happening to you? 233 00:18:39,315 --> 00:18:42,375 And I couldn't answer it, I had no idea. 234 00:18:44,205 --> 00:18:49,765 So what I did was, what I always did, I put that mask back on and 235 00:18:49,765 --> 00:18:51,780 I went out and I finished my day. 236 00:18:52,050 --> 00:18:58,620 Now everybody around me was so upset, crying, angry, I mean, you name it. 237 00:18:59,790 --> 00:19:05,190 And I was just like, this isn't gonna affect me, I'm gonna finish my day, this 238 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:10,860 is gonna be fine and inside I was a mess. 239 00:19:10,889 --> 00:19:13,620 But out exterior wise, no one saw it. 240 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,710 Nobody saw it. 241 00:19:16,290 --> 00:19:21,090 The minute I walked through those doors to get in my car, everything flooded back. 242 00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:22,290 Everything. 243 00:19:23,610 --> 00:19:26,010 And I felt like I was spiraling. 244 00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:33,120 Um, I had suicidal ideation, I, I had plans in my head. 245 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,750 But at the same time, I had this like internal fight. 246 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:42,720 Because even though I didn't wanna feel like this anymore, I had two babies 247 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,139 at home and I need to stay for them. 248 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:55,110 And so, um, I didn't know what I was gonna do and it wasn't until my husband 249 00:19:55,110 --> 00:20:00,240 stopped me at the door, 'cause he's a very smart man, and he watched me spiral. 250 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,169 He saw it coming and he knew it was a slippery slope. 251 00:20:05,639 --> 00:20:11,280 So he said, he told me, You have two choices, you either get help 252 00:20:11,949 --> 00:20:13,485 or I'm putting you in a hospital. 253 00:20:15,075 --> 00:20:18,555 And at that point I was so scared that I put up that white flag and I 254 00:20:18,555 --> 00:20:22,155 was like, All right, I'll, I'll go to the doctor, I'll, I'll get some help. 255 00:20:23,385 --> 00:20:27,645 And I made an appointment that afternoon to go see a physician, and 256 00:20:27,645 --> 00:20:31,005 the physician put me on antidepressants because that's what they do. 257 00:20:33,045 --> 00:20:36,435 And then he handed me a business card and he said, I want you to make 258 00:20:36,435 --> 00:20:37,710 an appointment with this therapist. 259 00:20:39,629 --> 00:20:45,780 And I literally laughed in his face because I said, Look, I tried this 260 00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:51,149 fourteen years ago and it didn't work, so what makes you think it's gonna work now. 261 00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:55,680 And he said, You know, honestly, you don't have a choice. 262 00:20:57,629 --> 00:21:01,860 And so I made the appointment, and three minutes into the appointment, 263 00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:04,740 I, I knew something was different. 264 00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:07,889 She was asking me the questions. 265 00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:14,010 And I felt safe with her, so I answered them. 266 00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:17,730 I was allowing myself to be vulnerable with her. 267 00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:24,780 And she looked at me after she heard my story and she said, Susan, everything 268 00:21:24,780 --> 00:21:30,750 you've gone through since you were seventeen is normal because you have PTSD. 269 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,320 And I was like, Wait a minute, I didn't go to war. 270 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,460 I'm not in the military, what do you mean I have PTSD? 271 00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:43,560 And she said, Nope. 272 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:49,770 She said, Anyone who goes through any type of trauma can experience PTSD. 273 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:55,140 But what you need to know about that is that it's not something that goes away, 274 00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:57,630 it's something you learn to manage. 275 00:21:59,250 --> 00:22:07,650 And in that moment, I realized I had hope for the first time that I had hope. 276 00:22:07,770 --> 00:22:13,170 And that I had a person that I had been yearning to have all these 277 00:22:13,170 --> 00:22:19,050 years, someone to be able to listen to me and guide me in the right way 278 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,500 so that I can heal from my trauma. 279 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,480 And I was so grateful in that moment, so grateful. 280 00:22:29,790 --> 00:22:32,580 So that was the beginning of my journey of healing. 281 00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:38,895 It, it's, it's a very fascinating story, Susan. 282 00:22:39,465 --> 00:22:44,024 Um, I really wanna ask the first question here. 283 00:22:45,045 --> 00:22:53,055 Did your family ever talk about what if, if this ever occurred, 284 00:22:53,205 --> 00:22:56,024 before your father's passing? 285 00:22:56,655 --> 00:23:02,925 Uh, did you ever sit down at the table and say, Look, I have this dangerous 286 00:23:02,925 --> 00:23:13,455 job, and at any time, tragedy could strike and we all need to be able 287 00:23:13,455 --> 00:23:15,675 to open up and talk about this. 288 00:23:15,825 --> 00:23:19,245 Was there ever that time in your family? 289 00:23:20,595 --> 00:23:21,135 No. 290 00:23:21,140 --> 00:23:24,405 You know, I, I kind of had a false sense of security. 291 00:23:24,435 --> 00:23:31,160 Because when he became a detective, in my mind, a detective comes in after. 292 00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:39,629 So the, the, the, it's more of the processing, it's not being in the middle 293 00:23:39,629 --> 00:23:44,159 of the crime or, you know, putting yourself in harm's way in that way. 294 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:51,000 And so I felt like dad had a desk job, you know, how, how dangerous is that? 295 00:23:52,754 --> 00:23:56,804 We didn't think about retaliation or anything like 296 00:23:56,804 --> 00:23:58,754 that, and this is what it was. 297 00:23:59,355 --> 00:24:06,284 And so, and it had never happened before, so it wasn't even in our stratosphere. 298 00:24:06,375 --> 00:24:08,865 You know, we just didn't even think about that. 299 00:24:09,435 --> 00:24:16,260 I'm sure my mom and dad had, you know, conversations when he went into law 300 00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:19,290 enforcement that this is a possibility. 301 00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:25,980 But when it came to me, being as old as I was, and being able to 302 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:33,240 have those kind of conversations, I just felt like, you know, he had a 303 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,209 desk job, he came in after the fact. 304 00:24:36,990 --> 00:24:38,969 You know, what harm could come to him? 305 00:24:40,335 --> 00:24:45,929 So, yeah, it was never a conversation with, especially with me and him. 306 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,570 So what was your support system like before the incident 307 00:24:51,870 --> 00:24:54,300 and then after the incident? 308 00:24:54,450 --> 00:25:00,179 Was there ever any, you know, the thin blue line brotherhood? 309 00:25:00,750 --> 00:25:03,690 They are supposed to take care of each other. 310 00:25:03,690 --> 00:25:07,560 Was there support from them before and after? 311 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,435 And what was that like? 312 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:17,070 Um, you know, my dad was pretty close with a lot of the guys that he worked 313 00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:19,560 with, so they were kind of like family. 314 00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:25,050 Um, the one thing I can say about my dad was he was a very present person. 315 00:25:25,860 --> 00:25:29,550 So when you were with him, he always made you feel like you were the 316 00:25:29,550 --> 00:25:31,270 most important person in the room. 317 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,419 And anyone who knew him, whether, you know, he worked with them, 318 00:25:36,419 --> 00:25:39,389 or trained them, or whatever, will say the same thing. 319 00:25:40,530 --> 00:25:45,720 And so there was always that feeling of, you know, if something had happened, 320 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:48,780 they would be there for his family. 321 00:25:49,050 --> 00:25:54,445 But afterwards, yes, there was absolutely that. 322 00:25:54,810 --> 00:25:59,159 They came, they did whatever they could to help my mom around the house. 323 00:25:59,985 --> 00:26:03,794 The following week, my brother had a birthday and he turned seven. 324 00:26:03,794 --> 00:26:10,365 And so my mom and dad had bought him a bike and they wanted, my dad 325 00:26:10,365 --> 00:26:14,895 wanted to teach him how to ride his bike, but he didn't get that chance. 326 00:26:16,095 --> 00:26:23,985 So, um, there were about, I, I don't know, twenty detectives that showed 327 00:26:23,985 --> 00:26:29,805 up at our door on his birthday and showed my brother how to ride a bike. 328 00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:35,475 Um, and they came around quite a bit, you know, there was a lot of police 329 00:26:35,475 --> 00:26:40,035 officers that, even though they weren't like in our face behind the 330 00:26:40,035 --> 00:26:42,855 scenes, they would look out for us. 331 00:26:43,275 --> 00:26:48,555 Um, my mom would have drive-bys all the time where the, um, the guys that 332 00:26:48,555 --> 00:26:53,685 were on duty would drive by the house just to make sure she was okay and 333 00:26:54,395 --> 00:26:57,935 nothing, you know, nothing was awry. 334 00:26:58,435 --> 00:27:02,700 Um, and there was a lot of that going on. 335 00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:10,230 I had no idea until much, much, like one of 'em, I just realized, like I just got a 336 00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:14,850 letter from his wife, he has since passed. 337 00:27:14,850 --> 00:27:22,080 But, uh, his wife read my book and she, um, she reached out to me by 338 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:29,175 email and told me that he always, he was one of the officers that escorted 339 00:27:29,175 --> 00:27:31,094 us into the office that night. 340 00:27:32,534 --> 00:27:38,324 So he would always kind of keep an eye on my mom and my brother. 341 00:27:39,735 --> 00:27:46,185 And, um, and, and that was really bittersweet, um, especially 342 00:27:46,185 --> 00:27:50,834 knowing that he is no longer here, and I didn't even know about it. 343 00:27:50,834 --> 00:27:52,665 My mom knew about it, but she never told me. 344 00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:56,190 Which is not a shocker. 345 00:27:57,930 --> 00:27:59,940 Yeah, that's how it works. 346 00:28:01,170 --> 00:28:04,260 So, you know, yeah. 347 00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:10,290 Your, your brother was there when it happened and, you know, your father kind 348 00:28:10,290 --> 00:28:17,640 of told him to get down and get out of the way, so I'm sure he's, he's going through 349 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:21,360 a lot of the same and maybe a little more. 350 00:28:22,169 --> 00:28:30,000 Uh, do you guys ever talk about what happened and do you reminisce about it? 351 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:34,830 Uh, yeah. 352 00:28:34,830 --> 00:28:35,730 I try not to. 353 00:28:35,730 --> 00:28:40,169 And the reason is, I mean, he and I have talked about a lot of things. 354 00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:44,070 Um, I didn't have a relationship with him for many years just 355 00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:49,290 because at the time when he was an adolescent into early teens, he 356 00:28:49,290 --> 00:28:51,149 started getting into some trouble. 357 00:28:51,945 --> 00:28:56,295 Um, and he was not making good choices, let's just put it that way. 358 00:28:56,325 --> 00:29:01,275 And, uh, headed down the drug route. 359 00:29:02,265 --> 00:29:08,805 My mom was a drinker and my dad, my brother was, uh, an addict. 360 00:29:08,955 --> 00:29:16,605 And so, um, I kind of, and we're ten years apart, so I distance 361 00:29:16,605 --> 00:29:19,850 myself a lot from that drama. 362 00:29:20,805 --> 00:29:28,275 Um, but as he got older and I got to know him as an adult and he got to know me as 363 00:29:28,275 --> 00:29:33,705 an adult, we were able to start healing our relationship about seven years ago. 364 00:29:34,725 --> 00:29:40,185 And in that, we were, it was literally a comparison of, comparison of notes. 365 00:29:41,625 --> 00:29:49,185 Um, which was healing, but at the same time, it's like, the one thing 366 00:29:49,185 --> 00:29:55,635 that he could tell me is that, at the time of the incident, all the focus 367 00:29:55,635 --> 00:29:57,635 went on to him and my, and my mother. 368 00:29:58,835 --> 00:30:01,335 And, and, and of course it would, right? 369 00:30:01,514 --> 00:30:03,345 But I got pushed aside. 370 00:30:04,185 --> 00:30:07,125 Um, the media didn't even realize or recognize that he 371 00:30:07,125 --> 00:30:08,685 had a daughter for two days. 372 00:30:09,885 --> 00:30:14,995 And so I felt very pushed aside, very not important. 373 00:30:15,415 --> 00:30:20,250 Um, and he knew that and recognized that and had a lot 374 00:30:20,250 --> 00:30:21,840 of shame and guilt around that. 375 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,230 So we were able to heal through those conversations. 376 00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:28,650 Um, and now we're very, very close. 377 00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:36,840 And he's doing great and he is, you know, he married the love of his life. 378 00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:42,500 He has a daughter in California, he's a stepdad, he's now a papa 379 00:30:43,649 --> 00:30:48,990 to two babies, and, um, you know, he's doing really, really well now. 380 00:30:50,129 --> 00:30:57,720 He has visceral reactions, um, he has, it, it leads to, to some 381 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:04,170 physical issues that he has if we bring up, if he gets overly stressed. 382 00:31:04,260 --> 00:31:10,379 So I told him when I wrote the book, you can read this or you don't have to. 383 00:31:11,715 --> 00:31:14,745 You can read it along with your therapist. 384 00:31:15,135 --> 00:31:20,085 Um, I don't wanna put any more pressure on him and I definitely don't wanna 385 00:31:20,085 --> 00:31:22,665 cause him any more health issues. 386 00:31:23,235 --> 00:31:28,125 So, um, I just told him, you know, when you're, when it's 387 00:31:28,125 --> 00:31:30,855 time, if you wanna read it, great. 388 00:31:31,035 --> 00:31:33,795 If you don't ever wanna read it, that's fine too. 389 00:31:34,365 --> 00:31:35,505 I totally get it. 390 00:31:36,795 --> 00:31:43,125 Um, so we, we have been able to, we've been able to like talk about that night 391 00:31:43,185 --> 00:31:53,925 and what he saw and um, and I was able to kind of tell him that, you know, it 392 00:31:53,925 --> 00:32:01,800 made me sad that he had so much shame and so much guilt about, even though 393 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,910 he was six years old, that there was nothing he could do to help the situation. 394 00:32:05,910 --> 00:32:07,380 There was nothing he could do. 395 00:32:08,130 --> 00:32:12,450 But he lived with survivor's guilt for a really long time. 396 00:32:13,740 --> 00:32:21,390 And, and I, you know, he had to hear it from me that it was okay to have 397 00:32:21,390 --> 00:32:28,275 those feelings and just make sure that he knew that that was valid. 398 00:32:28,455 --> 00:32:31,785 You know, it was a valid emotion to have. 399 00:32:32,595 --> 00:32:37,965 However, you know, I don't feel that way. 400 00:32:38,805 --> 00:32:44,505 Uh, no one else feels that way, and so he needs to learn to let that go 401 00:32:45,045 --> 00:32:46,780 so that he can move on with his life. 402 00:32:47,865 --> 00:32:48,105 Yeah. 403 00:32:48,764 --> 00:32:54,014 Well, anytime we deal with these traumatic experiences, especially as 404 00:32:54,014 --> 00:33:00,465 children, because that's when it's most traumatizing, uh, in my opinion. 405 00:33:00,985 --> 00:33:02,115 Uh, so 406 00:33:04,294 --> 00:33:11,264 there's, there's a lot of ways people can go, but you chose to start 407 00:33:11,264 --> 00:33:14,475 speaking out and become an advocate. 408 00:33:14,625 --> 00:33:20,834 What was that tipping point like and why did you choose to start speaking out? 409 00:33:24,510 --> 00:33:32,565 Well, for me, part of the reason I wrote my book was, um, when you go through 410 00:33:32,565 --> 00:33:39,195 something like that, that's very much in, uh, you know, out there in the open 411 00:33:39,705 --> 00:33:49,575 and people make up in their minds your story and a lot of times their story did 412 00:33:49,575 --> 00:33:53,745 not align with who I was as a person. 413 00:33:54,105 --> 00:34:00,750 And so when I turned fifty years old, there's something about fifty, I don't 414 00:34:00,750 --> 00:34:03,149 know, but I drew a line in the sand. 415 00:34:04,530 --> 00:34:08,790 I drew a line in the sand and I said, It has to happen now, 416 00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:10,560 I have to write my book now. 417 00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:14,250 And it took me four and a half years to write it. 418 00:34:14,730 --> 00:34:20,730 I had to be in the right mental state in order to do this, and I had to have the 419 00:34:20,730 --> 00:34:26,770 tools to manage the emotions that would come up throughout the writing process. 420 00:34:27,770 --> 00:34:32,550 And I did, I, I felt confident in knowing that I would be able 421 00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:36,179 to pull myself out of whatever emotion that I was headed towards. 422 00:34:38,190 --> 00:34:42,300 There was a lot of fear involved in writing this book, as well, 423 00:34:42,449 --> 00:34:44,219 for a couple of different reasons. 424 00:34:44,670 --> 00:34:48,270 When I sat back and I realized what kind of book I wanted to write, which 425 00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:53,400 was a memoir, I knew that I needed to be a hundred percent authentic. 426 00:34:54,915 --> 00:34:59,145 And in doing that, I had to tell, not only my story, but I had to 427 00:34:59,145 --> 00:35:01,215 tell other people's stories as well. 428 00:35:02,295 --> 00:35:07,065 And in doing that, I knew that part of those people would 429 00:35:07,065 --> 00:35:11,745 be my mom and my, my husband. 430 00:35:13,035 --> 00:35:21,810 And I, when I thought about it, it was scary because my mom and 431 00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:23,520 I were hanging on by a thread. 432 00:35:23,970 --> 00:35:29,790 You know, our relationship has never been healthy and, uh, my 433 00:35:29,790 --> 00:35:31,950 mom is a narcissistic parent. 434 00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:36,149 And so it was difficult, right? 435 00:35:36,149 --> 00:35:45,509 So I had to be okay with the outcome, whether that was totally releasing our 436 00:35:45,509 --> 00:35:50,714 relationship or opening a conversation. 437 00:35:52,484 --> 00:35:57,825 Also with my husband, we've been through so much in almost forty years together and 438 00:35:58,785 --> 00:36:06,384 I was afraid that this, 'cause I do talk about issues that we had in our marriage, 439 00:36:07,435 --> 00:36:12,944 that this would reopen some old wounds and cause harm to my relationship with him. 440 00:36:13,755 --> 00:36:17,805 The third thing that I was fearful was, my safety. 441 00:36:18,915 --> 00:36:25,154 Because when the book came out, two of the men were still incarcerated. 442 00:36:25,815 --> 00:36:31,310 One of them had already been released in 2017, so I was a little afraid 443 00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:38,565 of retaliation, coming from my background, because we were targets 444 00:36:38,565 --> 00:36:41,205 at one point, the entire family. 445 00:36:42,615 --> 00:36:46,785 Um, so all those old feelings came back up. 446 00:36:48,645 --> 00:36:54,075 But what I realized that there was so much pain and anger 447 00:36:54,465 --> 00:36:57,105 revolving around my dad's death. 448 00:36:57,665 --> 00:37:01,649 And, and the fact that my brother was involved and saw it. 449 00:37:02,399 --> 00:37:10,230 In the law enforcement world especially, um, I felt like if people saw the healing 450 00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:16,500 I did and the resiliency I have, that it would allow them to heal as well. 451 00:37:18,299 --> 00:37:22,529 And I also realized that there are faceless people out there 452 00:37:23,234 --> 00:37:28,814 that maybe are afraid of starting their healing journey from trauma. 453 00:37:29,714 --> 00:37:33,975 That maybe by them seeing my book and reading my book and hearing my 454 00:37:33,975 --> 00:37:38,475 message, that it would give them, um, 455 00:37:41,024 --> 00:37:44,205 an idea of they weren't alone. 456 00:37:44,294 --> 00:37:50,055 You know, just making sure that they understood that they aren't alone and 457 00:37:50,655 --> 00:37:52,995 you can get through things like this. 458 00:37:53,355 --> 00:37:57,975 You can move through this, these things, you can find resiliency 459 00:37:57,975 --> 00:37:59,175 on the other side of it. 460 00:38:00,045 --> 00:38:04,875 So every time I had those fears pop up and they came, they popped up 461 00:38:04,875 --> 00:38:12,315 frequently, I always put my purpose behind the writing of the book. 462 00:38:12,765 --> 00:38:18,465 Which was the faceless people out there that needed to hear my message, that 463 00:38:18,465 --> 00:38:22,950 needed to hear they weren't alone, and needed to hear that they can heal from 464 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:24,780 whatever trauma that they've gone through. 465 00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:29,370 Yeah, I, I think it's so important. 466 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:36,569 You know, they, they say coping with things can be difficult. 467 00:38:37,174 --> 00:38:44,850 I, I say it is going to be difficult no matter how, how strong we are. 468 00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:49,140 When hiccups hit us, it's a roadblock. 469 00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:54,690 And sometimes our mind, it, it stumbles when those things happen. 470 00:38:55,259 --> 00:39:03,509 So what, what is the best thing that has come out of this instance in your life? 471 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,590 Oh gosh, the best thing, I, I found my purpose. 472 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,000 Um, I found my purpose. 473 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:21,690 And so when I speak to people, um, I'm coming from a place of, I 474 00:39:21,690 --> 00:39:25,050 understand where they're coming from. 475 00:39:26,430 --> 00:39:34,500 And my biggest message that I put out to people when they meet 476 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:37,710 me is, that I am a safe space. 477 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:45,480 You can be vulnerable with me, you can trust me, there is no judgment. 478 00:39:46,110 --> 00:39:49,680 I think a lot of people go into therapy and they're afraid to be 479 00:39:49,770 --> 00:39:53,490 vulnerable because they're afraid they're gonna be judged for whatever 480 00:39:53,490 --> 00:39:55,230 it is that's coming out of their mouth. 481 00:39:56,010 --> 00:40:01,330 And I can tell you right now, if you have a therapist that has any kind of judgment, 482 00:40:02,250 --> 00:40:07,560 you get up from that chair and you leave the office because that's not your person. 483 00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:13,260 Um, and I had to learn that, you know? 484 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,450 And I was, I was grateful it only took me two therapists to figure that out. 485 00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:23,970 However, I tell people all the time, this is your healing. 486 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,740 It's nobody else's healing. 487 00:40:27,255 --> 00:40:31,725 You have every right to interview your therapist, make sure that that 488 00:40:31,725 --> 00:40:34,695 therapist knows your type of trauma. 489 00:40:35,475 --> 00:40:39,795 Not that they lump you into one generalization of what trauma is, 490 00:40:40,245 --> 00:40:41,985 because every trauma is different. 491 00:40:43,395 --> 00:40:48,195 So if they don't know what type of trauma you've gone through, they're gonna have 492 00:40:48,195 --> 00:40:54,060 a hard time guiding you in the right way and nurturing you along the way. 493 00:40:54,660 --> 00:40:59,680 And so I tell everybody, like, make sure that you're interviewing them. 494 00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:04,710 Ask that question, Is this the type of trauma that you specialize in? 495 00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:10,710 Or how many, how many clients have you dealt with, with my type of trauma? 496 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:18,480 And if you feel like you can be vulnerable with that person, if you feel like that's 497 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:24,975 a safe space for you, I know that being vulnerable is one of the most scariest 498 00:41:24,975 --> 00:41:30,185 thing in the whole wide world, to open yourself up and be that raw, I get it. 499 00:41:30,545 --> 00:41:32,465 I've been there, I've done that. 500 00:41:33,515 --> 00:41:36,395 And I, and I recognize that, and that's okay. 501 00:41:36,575 --> 00:41:39,455 That's okay, that's valid. 502 00:41:40,685 --> 00:41:48,275 However, if you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable with that therapist, with that 503 00:41:48,275 --> 00:41:53,795 professional, with that coach, with that spiritual leader, whatever it is that you 504 00:41:53,795 --> 00:42:00,395 seek, the real true healing is not gonna happen in the way that you need it to. 505 00:42:02,285 --> 00:42:03,635 So it's really important. 506 00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:05,550 Yeah. 507 00:42:06,180 --> 00:42:07,310 Yeah, a hundred percent. 508 00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:10,010 That, that is. 509 00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:15,920 That is 100% truth and it's rock solid advice. 510 00:42:16,460 --> 00:42:25,370 So I, I found podcasting and I found that this release mechanism and 511 00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:32,780 this journey of education has helped me grow immensely in my journey. 512 00:42:33,185 --> 00:42:34,955 Also my wife's journey. 513 00:42:35,345 --> 00:42:42,980 And we really find comfort in learning from others and 514 00:42:42,980 --> 00:42:45,410 what they have went through. 515 00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:52,220 This is a solid way to be able to turn on and just listen to other people 516 00:42:52,220 --> 00:42:59,300 and how they have went through and overcome different situations in life. 517 00:42:59,420 --> 00:43:01,820 And you don't even have to say a word. 518 00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:09,680 So I found that podcasting can be a safe space and you can be wherever you are. 519 00:43:09,710 --> 00:43:15,560 So when you don't have that trust in somebody, there's 520 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,200 always that mechanism of hope. 521 00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:24,470 And that's what Susan and I are here doing today, is providing that hope 522 00:43:24,770 --> 00:43:32,480 and that availability for individuals that might be seeking a better way. 523 00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:38,690 And we might be a doorstep to that therapist for them because 524 00:43:38,990 --> 00:43:41,090 we all need help, don't we, Susan? 525 00:43:42,860 --> 00:43:45,920 Absolutely, absolutely. 526 00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:53,810 You know, it's, it's, and where I come into play as a coach, because even though 527 00:43:53,810 --> 00:43:58,400 I went through all of this work, I did all of that work meant for my mental 528 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,980 health, you still get to a point in your life where you're like, Okay, I'm 529 00:44:03,980 --> 00:44:06,140 this person now, what do I do with it? 530 00:44:07,220 --> 00:44:11,360 And, and so that's where I come into play. 531 00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:15,080 You know, we, we, I meet you where you are, right? 532 00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:19,850 If you still need, if you still have some healing to do, I'm not a 533 00:44:19,850 --> 00:44:27,950 therapist, but I know enough to be able to, um, move you past some of that 534 00:44:27,950 --> 00:44:29,780 so that you're able to move forward. 535 00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:35,150 Whether it's in your relationship, whether it's parenting, you know, 536 00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:40,430 being a mom or a dad, or, you know, in your career, in, you know, in your 537 00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:42,470 business life, your professional life. 538 00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:48,770 So, um, that's where I come into play as far as being a resiliency coach. 539 00:44:50,090 --> 00:44:50,390 Yes. 540 00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:57,995 And, and life skill, it, it really is the defining factor in being an expert. 541 00:44:58,535 --> 00:45:01,445 You know, a white coat does not make you an expert. 542 00:45:01,775 --> 00:45:07,265 But I can guarantee you after you're fifty years old and you've been married 543 00:45:07,265 --> 00:45:13,405 over forty years, that's a lot of experience that can help many people. 544 00:45:13,915 --> 00:45:19,225 I've been with my wife and married, we got together in 1983. 545 00:45:19,555 --> 00:45:25,795 We've been married since 1985, and it's the best thing and the worst 546 00:45:25,795 --> 00:45:27,745 thing that's ever happened in my life. 547 00:45:29,095 --> 00:45:35,125 But I am very thankful for the experience and the transition that 548 00:45:35,125 --> 00:45:37,735 led me to where I am here today. 549 00:45:37,765 --> 00:45:43,085 And that's the beauty of the experience factor. 550 00:45:43,085 --> 00:45:47,465 Being over fifty, have a lot to offer. 551 00:45:47,465 --> 00:45:51,995 And there's no way anyone can deny that. 552 00:45:51,995 --> 00:45:54,935 So I highly encourage you to keep going. 553 00:45:55,415 --> 00:46:00,155 And most of all, I wanna say thank you for sharing here today. 554 00:46:00,965 --> 00:46:05,405 Do you have anything else you'd like to add to our conversation or 555 00:46:05,405 --> 00:46:08,825 give our listeners a call to action? 556 00:46:09,545 --> 00:46:12,635 Yeah, so, um, a couple of things. 557 00:46:12,665 --> 00:46:14,585 I always end with one. 558 00:46:15,155 --> 00:46:18,095 Um, if you're out there and you're listening to this, just know that 559 00:46:18,095 --> 00:46:24,580 you're not alone and there is a person out there that can help you heal. 560 00:46:26,405 --> 00:46:31,865 The one thing I can say personally is that doing the work and healing through 561 00:46:31,865 --> 00:46:36,515 my trauma and finding resiliency, 562 00:46:38,705 --> 00:46:42,925 the fact that I don't have that pain hold it, held over 563 00:46:42,925 --> 00:46:47,465 my head anymore is priceless. 564 00:46:47,525 --> 00:46:53,015 And that's what I want for everyone, I want everyone to feel that. 565 00:46:53,495 --> 00:46:58,175 And so just knowing that you're not alone and that's not something 566 00:46:58,175 --> 00:46:59,915 that I heard as a young lady. 567 00:47:00,935 --> 00:47:03,155 Um, I felt very alone. 568 00:47:04,085 --> 00:47:08,975 And so it's always my, it's always my message to people. 569 00:47:10,265 --> 00:47:18,785 And you know, like I said, um, life is messy and we do get trauma along the way 570 00:47:20,825 --> 00:47:25,220 and you can also find the healing through that trauma. 571 00:47:25,340 --> 00:47:31,790 And once you have healed through a trauma and you've worked, done 572 00:47:31,790 --> 00:47:38,150 some of the work, when things come up in life, you're more apt to cope 573 00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:41,780 with them in a more healthy way. 574 00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:46,790 So it's very important for you to take time out for yourself. 575 00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:52,250 I know a lot of people heal for others, they heal for their children, they 576 00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:56,450 try to heal for, you know, whoever else, you need to heal for yourself. 577 00:47:57,050 --> 00:48:00,770 And you'll see once you've healed yourself and healed your wounds, 578 00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:05,900 that it ripples out and the people around you recognize that. 579 00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:13,040 So then now you're in it together instead of on an island alone. 580 00:48:13,970 --> 00:48:17,175 And that's, that's really important in your journey. 581 00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:19,730 Yeah. 582 00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:25,040 How can people reach out and get in touch and work with you? 583 00:48:27,590 --> 00:48:28,220 Sure. 584 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:33,530 So, um, if you want the book, I'll tell you where to get the book. 585 00:48:33,530 --> 00:48:35,600 The book is The Other Side of the Gun. 586 00:48:35,630 --> 00:48:37,880 My Journey from Trauma to Resiliency. 587 00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:42,200 It is on Amazon and it is in Kindle form. 588 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:48,245 So if you're a Kindle Unlimited, uh, member, you can read my book for free. 589 00:48:49,055 --> 00:48:50,645 All I ask is for reviews. 590 00:48:51,845 --> 00:48:58,775 Um, I am on Instagram, Susan underscore Snow 1. 591 00:48:59,025 --> 00:49:01,925 I am on TikTok and I have a website. 592 00:49:02,375 --> 00:49:06,785 My website is great 'cause it gives information on my speaking, it also 593 00:49:06,785 --> 00:49:11,615 gives, uh, information on my coaching and a little bit about my book. 594 00:49:11,735 --> 00:49:14,975 So that is susansnowspeaks.com. 595 00:49:16,775 --> 00:49:21,035 Susan, it's remarkable what you're doing out there. 596 00:49:21,125 --> 00:49:27,185 I thank you for doing it, and thank you so much for sharing here today. 597 00:49:27,755 --> 00:49:29,105 I wish you the best. 598 00:49:31,265 --> 00:49:32,495 Thank you so much. 599 00:49:33,455 --> 00:49:34,535 Thanks for having me. 600 00:49:38,075 --> 00:49:39,755 Thank you for joining us today. 601 00:49:40,385 --> 00:49:46,595 If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, 602 00:49:47,300 --> 00:49:53,780 please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another 603 00:49:53,780 --> 00:49:57,200 great episode of the Dead America Podcast. 604 00:49:57,470 --> 00:50:02,760 I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you might be.