1 00:00:05,694 --> 00:00:08,575 Ed Watters: To overcome, you must educate. 2 00:00:09,955 --> 00:00:16,024 Educate not only yourself, but educate anyone seeking to learn. 3 00:00:17,325 --> 00:00:21,435 We are all Dead America, we can all learn something. 4 00:00:22,525 --> 00:00:26,805 To learn, we must challenge what we already understand. 5 00:00:27,790 --> 00:00:31,180 The way we do that is through conversation. 6 00:00:32,689 --> 00:00:39,699 Sometimes we have conversations with others, however, some of the best 7 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,859 conversations happen with ourselves. 8 00:00:44,109 --> 00:00:51,430 Reach out and challenge yourself; let's dive in and learn something new right now. 9 00:00:55,895 --> 00:00:58,754 Today, we are speaking with Jason Lange. 10 00:00:58,955 --> 00:01:04,995 He is a men's embodiment coach and he's all about evolutionary men. 11 00:01:05,504 --> 00:01:08,265 Jason, could you please introduce yourself? 12 00:01:08,265 --> 00:01:10,655 Let people know just a little more about you, please. 13 00:01:11,835 --> 00:01:12,575 Jason Lange: Yeah. 14 00:01:12,614 --> 00:01:14,344 First off, thanks for having me here, Ed. 15 00:01:14,595 --> 00:01:15,624 Excited to be here. 16 00:01:16,054 --> 00:01:20,484 And so, yeah, I'm a, uh, men's work guide, coach, and facilitator. 17 00:01:20,854 --> 00:01:23,725 I've been working with men for about fifteen years now. 18 00:01:24,085 --> 00:01:28,714 Started my journey, um, my journey started with me getting into men's work. 19 00:01:29,035 --> 00:01:35,434 And so, um, learning really firsthand the power of embodiment work in men's 20 00:01:35,434 --> 00:01:40,794 groups in terms of shifting a lot of the challenges I was having in my life and 21 00:01:41,125 --> 00:01:44,815 fell so in love with the work, now it's kind of what I guide other men through. 22 00:01:45,274 --> 00:01:48,335 Um, and something I'm just grateful for every day. 23 00:01:48,335 --> 00:01:51,365 And in fact, I think it's just becoming more and more important 24 00:01:51,830 --> 00:01:54,990 with each and every passing day with the state of the world. 25 00:01:56,359 --> 00:01:58,939 Ed Watters: I can't agree more, Jason. 26 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:01,780 Men are hurting out there. 27 00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:07,760 We are lost, confused, you know, because the world is changing rapidly. 28 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:13,900 And what we define ourself as, it's changing. 29 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,980 So there's already confusion from the traditional lifestyle. 30 00:02:21,060 --> 00:02:27,780 Now we've got so many more lifestyles in the mix, and it's very hard for 31 00:02:27,790 --> 00:02:37,840 many men to accept and understand the evolution into what the modern world is. 32 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,570 What should a man be in your opinion, Jason? 33 00:02:45,010 --> 00:02:47,660 Jason Lange: Yeah, it's such a great question and is really at the heart 34 00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:50,470 of so much of the work I do in that. 35 00:02:50,899 --> 00:02:55,680 A lot of the pain as you speak about that men are under these days is, 36 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,600 we don't know what we're supposed to be or what we're supposed to do. 37 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:02,490 You know, the rules of the game in a lot of ways have changed. 38 00:03:02,980 --> 00:03:09,539 And men generally, in my opinion, want to do well for themselves, for their 39 00:03:09,539 --> 00:03:13,889 community, for their world, but they don't, these days, really know how. 40 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:18,990 And, you know, the paradigm used to be, in a sense, if you were a man, in 41 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:23,520 a kind of more traditional sense, just providing, showing up, doing your work, 42 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,290 taking care of your friends and family, 43 00:03:25,530 --> 00:03:26,270 that was enough. 44 00:03:26,980 --> 00:03:29,900 That's not really enough anymore. 45 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,529 And what we've seen, what I've seen firsthand in the men I work with is a 46 00:03:34,529 --> 00:03:39,840 lot of us came into this world and, um, you know, over the last fifty, sixty 47 00:03:39,859 --> 00:03:43,930 years, there's maybe kind of three predominant, what I say, archetypes 48 00:03:44,495 --> 00:03:50,455 for the masculine, for men that were, were, um, kind of demonstrated for us. 49 00:03:50,735 --> 00:03:53,734 And I'll just go through them quick and then it'll become pretty clear 50 00:03:53,734 --> 00:03:55,035 what the problem with them is. 51 00:03:55,534 --> 00:03:59,634 And the first is kind of the, what we joke is the traditional kind of macho 52 00:03:59,635 --> 00:04:04,595 jerk, the my way or the highway, the man who just goes for what he wants, takes 53 00:04:04,595 --> 00:04:10,234 what he wants, and often doesn't really think about much more than himself, right? 54 00:04:10,234 --> 00:04:13,475 So he's just, uh, conquering in a sense. 55 00:04:14,015 --> 00:04:17,805 And the thing about those men is they often do tend to get a certain type of 56 00:04:17,805 --> 00:04:21,714 success and achievement and kind of, but it's usually in more of a taking 57 00:04:21,714 --> 00:04:26,694 sense and they can often adversely impact those people around them, the 58 00:04:26,695 --> 00:04:28,495 environment, all kinds of things. 59 00:04:28,934 --> 00:04:35,115 And so many generations of men in the last, you know, um, decades grew 60 00:04:35,115 --> 00:04:40,975 up seeing the damages of that kind of man, a man who just doesn't care 61 00:04:41,365 --> 00:04:43,165 and causes harm to those around him. 62 00:04:43,725 --> 00:04:46,825 And as a result, you know, particularly I would say in the fifties and 63 00:04:46,825 --> 00:04:50,725 sixties and onward, we started to see a response to that of what we kind 64 00:04:50,725 --> 00:04:55,114 of now call the nice guy, us nice guys, I consider myself a nice guy. 65 00:04:55,385 --> 00:05:01,795 We're very heart centered, we really care about safety for those around us, we go 66 00:05:01,795 --> 00:05:06,474 out of our way to not be creeps or not to be too sexually aggressive, and we 67 00:05:06,474 --> 00:05:08,584 really are kind of polite, in a sense. 68 00:05:08,624 --> 00:05:12,215 We want those around us to feel well taken care of. 69 00:05:12,974 --> 00:05:16,585 The problem with a lot of nice guys is they do that at their own expense. 70 00:05:17,125 --> 00:05:19,325 So they don't set healthy boundaries, 71 00:05:19,475 --> 00:05:22,565 they don't really go for what they want, and they often end up feeling 72 00:05:22,565 --> 00:05:27,895 very frustrated and left behind in some of their primary relationships. 73 00:05:29,065 --> 00:05:32,344 Then the third one I'll just mention here, Ed, which is kind of sprinkled all around 74 00:05:32,344 --> 00:05:34,154 is what I call the traditional stoic. 75 00:05:34,555 --> 00:05:38,745 You know, I, I kind of tend to point to, um, the kind of greatest generation 76 00:05:38,745 --> 00:05:42,035 of grandfathers in particular, guys you could, you know, know for twenty, 77 00:05:42,465 --> 00:05:48,155 thirty, forty years, and maybe never even know they were in war or had some 78 00:05:48,185 --> 00:05:50,974 extremely challenging life events. 79 00:05:51,324 --> 00:05:55,915 They just kind of grunt their way through life, keep to themselves, show up and 80 00:05:55,915 --> 00:06:00,465 do their responsibilities, but really keep their inner world locked down. 81 00:06:01,294 --> 00:06:05,865 In all three of those strategies, uh, of being, for men, have kind 82 00:06:05,865 --> 00:06:10,005 of fallen apart in the sense they're just not working anymore. 83 00:06:10,395 --> 00:06:17,924 And you know, the, the, uh, suicide rates, loneliness rates, physical, um, ailments 84 00:06:17,984 --> 00:06:19,974 for men, like, it's just all skyrocketing. 85 00:06:20,124 --> 00:06:22,784 Men are literally hurting as you're saying. 86 00:06:23,584 --> 00:06:27,979 And so what we're being asked to do and kind of the, maybe the central premise 87 00:06:27,979 --> 00:06:30,609 of the work I do is, it's not about 88 00:06:34,090 --> 00:06:37,999 toxic masculinity or any of the stuff we often hear about now that, Oh, you 89 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,260 know, men are just inherently bad. 90 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,729 It's about, we got to take the best of what was and bring 91 00:06:43,729 --> 00:06:45,359 it into the future as well. 92 00:06:45,910 --> 00:06:51,199 And what that really points to in the work I do, Ed, is I kind of, again, 93 00:06:51,220 --> 00:06:53,350 bring it to three different points here. 94 00:06:53,914 --> 00:06:59,615 First, you know, modern men, modern integrated men, we need to be embodied. 95 00:07:00,255 --> 00:07:04,625 So we actually need to be connected to our direct bodily 96 00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:06,775 experience from moment to moment. 97 00:07:07,434 --> 00:07:10,794 This includes the physical sensations in our body and as I 98 00:07:10,794 --> 00:07:12,934 would say, our emotions as well. 99 00:07:13,004 --> 00:07:16,584 Because emotions start as physical sensations in the body. 100 00:07:16,984 --> 00:07:23,995 And so many of us men have actually been trained out of our bodies by our culture. 101 00:07:24,475 --> 00:07:28,525 We have been taught from a very young age, stop crying, toughen 102 00:07:28,525 --> 00:07:30,604 up, don't move in school. 103 00:07:30,805 --> 00:07:35,125 We get all of these messages, and it's from culture, it's from 104 00:07:35,125 --> 00:07:37,965 other men, sometimes it's from our teachers, that whatever's 105 00:07:37,965 --> 00:07:40,135 happening in your body, ignore it. 106 00:07:40,135 --> 00:07:44,025 A real man is tough and he just moves forward no matter what. 107 00:07:44,805 --> 00:07:47,465 That tends to cause some pretty big problems later on. 108 00:07:48,145 --> 00:07:52,615 So first off is us men just learning to get out of our heads and actually 109 00:07:52,615 --> 00:07:55,155 including our whole bodily experience. 110 00:07:55,424 --> 00:08:01,895 So being grounded, being present, and really just being here. 111 00:08:02,245 --> 00:08:08,130 Something that sounds maybe pretty simple, particularly in our age of technology, 112 00:08:08,130 --> 00:08:12,470 where everything is trying to pull our attention away from right here and 113 00:08:12,470 --> 00:08:15,110 now, it's, it's a big, big challenge. 114 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:21,480 Then second, is from that place, once we're grounded and embodied, that's 115 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,299 when we allow ourselves to open. 116 00:08:23,914 --> 00:08:29,625 To actually become open to the moment, open to our emotions, and attuned 117 00:08:29,625 --> 00:08:31,855 to ourselves and those around us. 118 00:08:32,255 --> 00:08:36,634 So this is a pretty big paradigm shift for a lot of men where I say the 119 00:08:36,634 --> 00:08:42,175 most powerful men I know these days, they are also the most sensitive men. 120 00:08:42,534 --> 00:08:45,595 And I don't mean sensitive in that they get hurt just from 121 00:08:45,605 --> 00:08:46,875 someone calling them a name. 122 00:08:47,095 --> 00:08:52,260 I mean sensitive in that they're deeply attuned, particularly 123 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:53,459 to those around them. 124 00:08:53,770 --> 00:08:57,459 They're deeply attuned to their emotional responses. 125 00:08:57,849 --> 00:09:01,019 They aren't prey to their emotions, right? 126 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:04,550 It's not like, Oh, this emotion happened to me, now I'm just exploding in rage. 127 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,890 They're actually able to notice, and see, and be with, Wow, I'm 128 00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:12,930 feeling really angry right now. 129 00:09:14,389 --> 00:09:19,550 That is such an evolutionary leap for most men to actually be able to name 130 00:09:19,579 --> 00:09:23,749 what their inner experience is in the moment rather than just reacting from it. 131 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:31,520 So there's this openness that, um, is deeply connected to that, that 132 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,070 bedrock of groundedness, in presence. 133 00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:39,130 And then the third thing I'll just add here in terms of what I kind of say as an 134 00:09:39,130 --> 00:09:47,539 evolutionary man is, we, we learn to take power of our awareness, to control, where 135 00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:50,859 is my attention going in any given moment? 136 00:09:51,860 --> 00:09:56,720 And to learn that, uh, our awareness is actually one of our superpowers. 137 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,820 So in any given moment, can I take my awareness, literally the focus of my 138 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:09,105 attention, and put it on what is most important for me, for my family, for 139 00:10:09,105 --> 00:10:13,365 my work, for the planet, whatever that means in that particularly moment. 140 00:10:13,805 --> 00:10:18,154 Another way to think about this is, we are able to orient towards depth. 141 00:10:19,325 --> 00:10:25,315 What is the most important thing for me to be paying attention to right now? 142 00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:30,445 And when we have all three of those things, so a deep grounded presence, 143 00:10:30,755 --> 00:10:35,924 an open and sensitive heart, and an expanded and focused awareness, those 144 00:10:36,015 --> 00:10:39,644 two terms might seem contradictory, but they're actually quite, um, 145 00:10:40,174 --> 00:10:44,450 they work quite well together, we, we become something very different. 146 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:49,370 We become a man that is in touch with our power, our sexuality, what we 147 00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:52,050 want, our capacity to set boundaries. 148 00:10:52,410 --> 00:10:56,349 But we're also deeply attuned to the people around us, noticing 149 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,920 the impact we're having on our environment, on our relationships. 150 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,715 And we're orienting towards, what's most important for those around me? 151 00:11:07,085 --> 00:11:11,265 So it's a tall order in a lot of ways, because I think a big part of where 152 00:11:11,265 --> 00:11:17,244 society is letting men down right now is we're not getting any training for how 153 00:11:17,244 --> 00:11:22,164 to be in this world in cultivating a deep presence, learning to be present with our 154 00:11:22,164 --> 00:11:25,364 emotions, even learning to work our minds. 155 00:11:25,674 --> 00:11:31,209 These are actual skills and capacities we have to practice and train at, and 156 00:11:31,219 --> 00:11:33,790 nobody is teaching us guys this stuff. 157 00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:36,740 Ed Watters: Yeah, I can't agree more. 158 00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:41,820 You know, I think the simple man is a thing of the past. 159 00:11:42,319 --> 00:11:48,360 We live in a technological age and therefore we have to keep up with 160 00:11:48,379 --> 00:11:50,430 that to be relevant in this world. 161 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:58,805 And with the changes in our technology, the brute force, the 162 00:11:58,815 --> 00:12:01,735 manual labor is getting less and less. 163 00:12:01,845 --> 00:12:09,225 So there's, there's this thing, our testosterone, it sometimes 164 00:12:09,615 --> 00:12:12,194 puts that grr to us, you know? 165 00:12:12,195 --> 00:12:16,925 But we go to the workplace and we work that out a lot of the time. 166 00:12:16,945 --> 00:12:23,980 And now with the advent of technologies, a lot of the times men work just 167 00:12:23,980 --> 00:12:28,410 like this, and there's no room for that grr time to get it out. 168 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:38,260 We, we need to incorporate social activities that allow us to be around men. 169 00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:44,400 You say men groups are necessary, and I really do agree with that a lot. 170 00:12:47,014 --> 00:12:53,645 Dealing with men in this atmosphere, what are some of the struggles that 171 00:12:54,055 --> 00:12:57,944 we are facing as men transitioning? 172 00:12:58,305 --> 00:12:59,545 Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. 173 00:12:59,864 --> 00:13:04,165 Uh, we mentioned one in particular is loneliness and isolation. 174 00:13:04,484 --> 00:13:11,545 So I think men in particular are, are very susceptible to, um, falling 175 00:13:11,545 --> 00:13:14,264 into very isolating life patterns. 176 00:13:14,765 --> 00:13:18,625 You know, this is obviously different across cultures and in individuals. 177 00:13:18,935 --> 00:13:23,114 But in general, a lot of women are better at just maintaining 178 00:13:23,114 --> 00:13:27,825 relationships, just literally just having connections in their lives. 179 00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:32,704 A lot of us men, again, partly, you know, some of it biological, but a 180 00:13:32,704 --> 00:13:37,334 lot of it cultural, um, fall prey to what I call the myth of the lone wolf. 181 00:13:37,614 --> 00:13:40,844 This idea that, Oh, a real man is someone who's tough, that doesn't 182 00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:42,884 need anyone, doesn't rely on anyone. 183 00:13:43,694 --> 00:13:46,824 So we kind of have that context along with, like you spoke 184 00:13:47,205 --> 00:13:51,245 about, a lot of shifting cultural and technological changes. 185 00:13:51,564 --> 00:13:55,144 Where a lot of the places us men used to go to get community have kind of 186 00:13:55,145 --> 00:13:59,954 fallen apart, social groups, men's clubs, certain types of work and 187 00:13:59,954 --> 00:14:04,905 activities, um, church groups for some people, there's a huge range of things. 188 00:14:04,905 --> 00:14:08,165 But a lot of that stuff is falling apart and there's this shift, right? 189 00:14:08,525 --> 00:14:12,745 Uh, at least here in the West, to kind of work from home, more entrepreneurial 190 00:14:12,755 --> 00:14:18,104 stuff where many men I work with, right, um, they can spend days or weeks 191 00:14:18,175 --> 00:14:19,684 without interacting with a person. 192 00:14:19,684 --> 00:14:21,795 You can click and order everything off Amazon. 193 00:14:22,104 --> 00:14:27,540 And there's all this energy now kind of working against us from actually 194 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,410 connecting with other human beings. 195 00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:33,410 And again, I think it's, it's men that are particularly vulnerable 196 00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:36,910 to this because we have this thing of, I got to do it all myself. 197 00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:41,429 So many men internalize this belief that I got to figure it out all myself. 198 00:14:41,459 --> 00:14:45,230 That's what a tough man does, you know, here in the States where I live, right? 199 00:14:45,649 --> 00:14:52,150 Um, we are just inundated with the image in particular of like the, the, the lone 200 00:14:52,189 --> 00:14:57,310 cowboy, the rugged individual, just, who pulls himself up by his bootstraps. 201 00:14:57,650 --> 00:15:01,750 And the truth is, uh, that doesn't work anymore, right? 202 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:07,150 Many of the men that go that route end up addicted to alcohol or weed, or have 203 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:09,879 autoimmune disorders, they die earlier. 204 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:12,560 Like there is just a crazy amount of stats. 205 00:15:12,659 --> 00:15:16,980 We are meant to live in, meant to live relationally, and in community, 206 00:15:17,490 --> 00:15:19,100 and in the natural world, right? 207 00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:23,110 The lone wolf is actually the wolf that was kicked out of the pack and they 208 00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:29,320 do not survive as long as the wolves in a pack, it has real consequences. 209 00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:35,430 So for one, most men are chronically malnourished in connection is what I find. 210 00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:41,130 And if they do have connection in their life, Ed, a lot of men out of 211 00:15:41,130 --> 00:15:46,280 the gate, we default to connecting via what I call triangulation. 212 00:15:46,850 --> 00:15:52,375 So it's me and you and we build connection by having our attention 213 00:15:52,615 --> 00:15:57,934 on a third thing, a sports game, an activity, there's something that 214 00:15:57,944 --> 00:15:59,385 we're putting our attention on. 215 00:15:59,655 --> 00:16:03,725 You know, another way I put this is men like to talk about things, right? 216 00:16:03,725 --> 00:16:07,235 We'll get together and we'll just talk about things, or politics, or whatever, 217 00:16:07,544 --> 00:16:13,004 but rarely are men trained to turn their attention towards each other. 218 00:16:13,619 --> 00:16:16,870 Hey, I'm gonna ask you what's going on in your life. 219 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,770 You're gonna ask me what's going on in my life. 220 00:16:18,979 --> 00:16:22,670 And our attention is actually going to be on each other, which is where the deepest 221 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:27,950 connection is often built and where I see time and time again with men I work with, 222 00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:32,895 they're, it's like they are in the desert malnourished and they get into a space 223 00:16:32,905 --> 00:16:37,405 where people are actually present and something inside them comes back alive. 224 00:16:37,725 --> 00:16:43,094 Some type of connection starts to blossom and vitality comes back to their lives. 225 00:16:43,565 --> 00:16:47,065 So for one, they're just, there's not enough connection for so many guys. 226 00:16:47,715 --> 00:16:51,914 Number two, like I said, is just these changing expectations 227 00:16:51,924 --> 00:16:53,734 for what men should be. 228 00:16:53,754 --> 00:16:59,185 You know, in a sense, um, uh, the probably most concrete form of this 229 00:16:59,185 --> 00:17:02,380 is all these, some of these ideas we've talked about, we, we kind of 230 00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:05,050 consolidate in what we call the man box. 231 00:17:05,649 --> 00:17:09,739 Which is this idea that, uh, and they've done research, right? 232 00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:13,639 It's really interesting, they did, they polled, um, men and women 233 00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:16,579 across the board, so this was both sides, and it's just simple 234 00:17:16,579 --> 00:17:21,935 question, what marks the transition between a girl and a woman, right? 235 00:17:21,935 --> 00:17:23,775 What makes a girl turn into a woman? 236 00:17:24,385 --> 00:17:30,075 And most people, both men and women included, noted biological features. 237 00:17:30,385 --> 00:17:33,765 So she starts menstruating, she has her cycle, her body changes, 238 00:17:34,295 --> 00:17:35,915 then she's a woman, right? 239 00:17:36,925 --> 00:17:42,024 Same question asked about boys and men, totally different answers. 240 00:17:42,485 --> 00:17:46,505 It's not based on biology, it's based on how the man is showing 241 00:17:46,505 --> 00:17:48,145 up in his culture or society. 242 00:17:48,165 --> 00:17:53,884 Expectations of behavior and integrity, meaning a boy could be fully mature in 243 00:17:53,884 --> 00:17:56,635 his body, but not be considered a man, 244 00:17:57,195 --> 00:17:57,585 right? 245 00:17:57,825 --> 00:18:00,585 Oh, he's still, he hasn't, he's failure to launch, right? 246 00:18:00,585 --> 00:18:01,355 He's stuck at home. 247 00:18:02,195 --> 00:18:06,705 And part of what drives that are these, what we call the man box. 248 00:18:07,044 --> 00:18:12,185 Which is, right, the set of expectations that create a box of behavior for us men. 249 00:18:12,584 --> 00:18:16,139 That if we're checking the contents of that box, We're a man. 250 00:18:16,469 --> 00:18:19,870 If we're not checking the contents of that box, we're less than a man. 251 00:18:19,949 --> 00:18:23,959 We're something else, there's all kinds of slurs and words for that, that people use. 252 00:18:24,509 --> 00:18:29,589 But some of the defining characteristics of that, like we said, are be tough, 253 00:18:30,189 --> 00:18:36,185 don't show emotion, don't be weak, push yourself, these are some of the messages 254 00:18:36,185 --> 00:18:38,865 we get from a very young age as men. 255 00:18:39,145 --> 00:18:44,725 Which again, then leads to this incredible problem of, as human beings. 256 00:18:45,745 --> 00:18:51,505 We men have emotions and feelings, but from a young age, we are not taught 257 00:18:51,555 --> 00:18:56,185 what they are, or how to relate to them, or how to healthily express them. 258 00:18:56,690 --> 00:19:00,520 So what happens instead is we have these uncomfortable sensations 259 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,700 in our bodies, sometimes we can't even label what they are. 260 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,199 And what men, I think in particular, do, Ed, is they turn to things outside of 261 00:19:09,199 --> 00:19:11,159 them to try to get rid of that feeling. 262 00:19:11,860 --> 00:19:18,885 So, booze, weed, porn, masturbation, food, working really hard, earning 263 00:19:18,885 --> 00:19:24,754 money, there's so many different ways us men will try to eject from our 264 00:19:24,754 --> 00:19:26,794 experience so we don't have to feel it. 265 00:19:27,485 --> 00:19:31,024 And the trouble is feelings don't go away. 266 00:19:31,534 --> 00:19:33,944 You can numb them out, you can try to push them away, you can 267 00:19:33,944 --> 00:19:36,204 run away from them, but they stay. 268 00:19:36,595 --> 00:19:40,845 And there's, you know, again, more and more research here that shows, you can 269 00:19:40,845 --> 00:19:42,355 even run a thought experience here. 270 00:19:43,159 --> 00:19:45,549 He came across a person, a young boy or something, right? 271 00:19:45,959 --> 00:19:48,989 And he's just scared or bawling in tears or something. 272 00:19:49,419 --> 00:19:52,359 And you come up to him and you go, Stop crying. 273 00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:54,309 What you'll see that boy do, 274 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,340 he'll hold his breath, he'll stop breathing and his body 275 00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:00,939 will actually tense up. 276 00:20:01,610 --> 00:20:06,370 So, the way we stop emotion is we tense up our body to hold it. 277 00:20:06,919 --> 00:20:11,360 We hold the feeling inside and maybe we eventually dissociate from it. 278 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:16,900 But long and short of this is every time we don't feel the, feel a 279 00:20:16,939 --> 00:20:22,729 feeling or allow emotional content to properly be experienced, it gets 280 00:20:22,739 --> 00:20:25,379 stored in our body as held tension. 281 00:20:26,379 --> 00:20:29,620 And the research seems to point to our fascia, which is what 282 00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:31,680 connects our muscle to our bone. 283 00:20:33,219 --> 00:20:37,139 But this has a huge energetic cost, right? 284 00:20:37,159 --> 00:20:39,290 Because even if I just told you right now, right? 285 00:20:39,479 --> 00:20:43,289 Tense all the muscles in your arms, you guys can, you can do this, right? 286 00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:46,019 Just stand in here and you tighten your biceps. 287 00:20:46,659 --> 00:20:48,890 And if I was like, Now hold that for twenty minutes. 288 00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:50,680 At first, it's like, Oh, that's easy. 289 00:20:51,530 --> 00:20:55,669 But as the time goes by you're like, Wow, this actually takes a lot of energy. 290 00:20:56,150 --> 00:20:59,060 And that's energy you do not have available for you 291 00:20:59,180 --> 00:21:00,290 in the rest of your life. 292 00:21:00,990 --> 00:21:06,390 So many men these days I work with, they have so much buried, buried 293 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,740 feeling and emotional content that's held in their body as tension. 294 00:21:11,379 --> 00:21:16,654 And then they walk around depressed, exhausted, anxious, and not sure 295 00:21:16,654 --> 00:21:18,924 what's, why this is happening to them. 296 00:21:19,715 --> 00:21:26,034 And so training men to learn to get in touch with their bodies, their hearts, 297 00:21:26,054 --> 00:21:30,914 their feelings, and then what to do with their emotions to make it a constructive, 298 00:21:31,174 --> 00:21:36,965 healthy thing is a huge edge and very underserved thing in our world right now. 299 00:21:37,335 --> 00:21:41,034 And you know, when we're young, Ed, I like to joke, you know, it's like we kind 300 00:21:41,034 --> 00:21:43,454 of come with a certain, uh, amount of 301 00:21:43,689 --> 00:21:45,009 juice in our battery. 302 00:21:45,169 --> 00:21:47,389 It's like, you know, we can just push ourselves, we can go 303 00:21:47,389 --> 00:21:48,619 out drinking, we can, whatever. 304 00:21:48,619 --> 00:21:49,689 And we just bounce back. 305 00:21:50,109 --> 00:21:52,629 And then, you know, you start to hit your, your forties and fifties 306 00:21:52,629 --> 00:21:56,610 and it's like, Oh wait, this doesn't just recharge automatically anymore. 307 00:21:56,860 --> 00:22:00,719 I got to be really mindful with what I'm doing with my life force. 308 00:22:01,310 --> 00:22:06,979 And a lot of these held emotions really start to kind of have an impact on 309 00:22:06,979 --> 00:22:09,080 us, I would say, in that middle age. 310 00:22:09,479 --> 00:22:14,654 Where we'll start to have extreme amounts of autoimmune disorders, depression, 311 00:22:14,664 --> 00:22:18,604 physical ailments that, you know, they can't all be traced back to emotional 312 00:22:18,634 --> 00:22:21,435 content, but it has a massive impact. 313 00:22:21,445 --> 00:22:26,084 So something I've seen in the live work I do, with men in particular, is guiding 314 00:22:26,084 --> 00:22:29,914 a man into, you know, sometimes something they've been holding, literally an 315 00:22:29,914 --> 00:22:34,584 emotional experience they've been holding from their childhood even, for decades. 316 00:22:34,904 --> 00:22:39,110 And they finally allow that to move through them, it's like a different 317 00:22:39,129 --> 00:22:41,340 human being shows up on the other side. 318 00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:45,020 Their face softens, their eyes open brighter, there's 319 00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:46,740 more energy, more presence. 320 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:52,299 And, and just tell you like, Wow, I'm here because I was spending all of this energy 321 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:54,879 to hold that at bay for all these years. 322 00:22:56,020 --> 00:22:59,310 And that just has such a huge consequence on us men. 323 00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:05,070 So isolation and, you know, another way to put this, maybe, emotional 324 00:23:05,070 --> 00:23:08,159 constipation that a lot of us men kind of get stuck with, two of 325 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:09,669 the huge challenges right now. 326 00:23:11,129 --> 00:23:11,880 Ed Watters: I like that. 327 00:23:12,089 --> 00:23:15,970 And it is so important to recognize that. 328 00:23:16,909 --> 00:23:25,580 Bottling things up is what we do best and that deep work, that dark shadow work, 329 00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:32,750 you call it, I believe, it is what we have to do to really break free from it all. 330 00:23:33,129 --> 00:23:42,429 And love ourselves even though we hate who we used to be, that's, that's quality. 331 00:23:42,509 --> 00:23:46,569 And when we put quality into us, we get quality out. 332 00:23:47,865 --> 00:23:52,495 It's easy to hide, it's easy to run, and it's easy to blame. 333 00:23:53,715 --> 00:24:00,064 I know that a lot of people get stuck in this blame game because that's what 334 00:24:00,065 --> 00:24:02,274 they've been taught to do, really. 335 00:24:02,604 --> 00:24:03,224 And, you know, 336 00:24:05,375 --> 00:24:12,395 it's about putting ourselves around people that really make the difference. 337 00:24:13,004 --> 00:24:17,274 What type of role models should a male be looking for? 338 00:24:18,834 --> 00:24:24,064 Jason Lange: Yeah, this is huge and it's one of the big reasons why I really am a 339 00:24:24,064 --> 00:24:26,284 proponent of this idea of men's groups. 340 00:24:26,314 --> 00:24:31,129 Because another challenge we have as men is, many of us don't get to 341 00:24:31,129 --> 00:24:33,270 spend time around other healthy men. 342 00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:38,770 So we're like, Hey, I know what I'm being shown in the world is not a healthy, 343 00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:42,720 uh, is not healthy, but I don't have any role models of what else there should be. 344 00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:48,109 And this is something that, you know, Robert Bly, who wrote, um, Iron John, 345 00:24:48,109 --> 00:24:51,664 he was one of the first to kind of talk about another one of the many 346 00:24:51,694 --> 00:24:55,544 kind of shifts for men was, you know, once the industrial revolution came, 347 00:24:55,554 --> 00:25:00,195 before that, boys at some point would kind of go off to be with the men. 348 00:25:00,835 --> 00:25:04,744 Dad would have a trade or work and, you know, around seven or eight, 349 00:25:04,744 --> 00:25:06,215 you would start to spend time 350 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,879 with dad, or your uncles, or the men in your life. 351 00:25:09,159 --> 00:25:13,780 And you would be taught kind of the way a man should be in a sense, what it means 352 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,179 to serve your community, your family. 353 00:25:16,889 --> 00:25:20,709 And once the industrial revolution hit, all the dads went away to factories. 354 00:25:20,929 --> 00:25:22,269 And so boys were left at home. 355 00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:25,610 And then we got shoved into school systems, which though it's changing, 356 00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:27,960 teachers have predominantly been women. 357 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,360 So a lot of boys have spent a lot of time being raised by women and 358 00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:36,649 don't necessarily have access to that, that kind of older role model 359 00:25:36,679 --> 00:25:42,440 energy where we get transmitted so much, so much happens in that. 360 00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:46,510 And I got pretty lucky, part of my personal journey is I got lucky. 361 00:25:46,510 --> 00:25:51,070 I got into a men's group when I was in my twenties and that exposed me to 362 00:25:51,070 --> 00:25:55,410 older, more mature men I never would have met in a different container. 363 00:25:55,730 --> 00:25:59,840 And this was a visceral thing for me as I'm sitting in the room with some 364 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,549 of these men and seeing how they're sharing, how they're standing, how they're 365 00:26:04,609 --> 00:26:06,929 breathing, how they deal with emotions. 366 00:26:07,249 --> 00:26:10,050 And, you know, it sounds a little cheesy, but I remember one of my 367 00:26:10,060 --> 00:26:13,870 first mentors, I saw him speaking and interacting with some people. 368 00:26:14,159 --> 00:26:17,049 And I just had this sense in my body of, Wow. 369 00:26:17,890 --> 00:26:19,800 That's what I want to be when I grow up. 370 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:24,810 It's not so much what he's doing, but it's his presence, which has come 371 00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:28,590 from a certain type of practice and work he had put in and on himself. 372 00:26:29,159 --> 00:26:33,689 So getting around other men who, as I say, are deeper than us 373 00:26:34,129 --> 00:26:35,760 doesn't mean they know everything. 374 00:26:36,115 --> 00:26:39,425 It just means in, you know, sometimes it's in career, sometimes it's in 375 00:26:39,425 --> 00:26:41,524 transformation, sometimes it's in sports. 376 00:26:41,905 --> 00:26:45,044 These men have gone a little further on their path than us 377 00:26:45,264 --> 00:26:50,304 and can transmit something to us and that is a really rare thing. 378 00:26:50,314 --> 00:26:53,244 You know, it's something I'm so grateful for having become 379 00:26:53,244 --> 00:26:54,604 a father in the last years. 380 00:26:54,604 --> 00:26:59,354 Have, you know, tried to navigate a pandemic and all this crazy stuff. 381 00:26:59,564 --> 00:27:02,800 And I was in men's groups with some guys in their fifties, sixties, and 382 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,199 seventies who, you know, I would be on the verge of a freak out. 383 00:27:06,199 --> 00:27:07,740 Oh my God, this is happening with my kid. 384 00:27:08,030 --> 00:27:08,830 And they're like, Hey. 385 00:27:09,239 --> 00:27:09,899 Yeah, totally. 386 00:27:09,899 --> 00:27:11,059 I get it, I remember that. 387 00:27:11,069 --> 00:27:13,100 Here's what worked for me, here's what I discovered. 388 00:27:13,419 --> 00:27:17,169 My whole nervous system just would relax like, Oh, okay. 389 00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:21,159 I got some people looking out for me who have some advice for me, who can guide me. 390 00:27:21,370 --> 00:27:26,120 It doesn't mean they have all the answers, but their wisdom was transmitted to me. 391 00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:30,830 So getting around other healthy men is one of the most powerful 392 00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:33,620 things we can do as guys. 393 00:27:34,110 --> 00:27:38,780 Get around other men who can call us forward when there's something in our 394 00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:43,469 life we need to be held accountable for, and frankly, just support us when 395 00:27:43,479 --> 00:27:46,020 we can't hold it together anymore. 396 00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:53,219 And so many men I know are just bracing, holding on for dear life and 397 00:27:53,219 --> 00:27:58,340 have nowhere to go where they can, sometimes literally, but oftentimes 398 00:27:58,340 --> 00:28:00,840 figuratively, be held by others. 399 00:28:01,159 --> 00:28:02,249 Hey, man, it's okay. 400 00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:04,629 I've got you right now, you don't have to hold it in. 401 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:08,719 That to me is one of the most powerful shifts I've seen for men. 402 00:28:08,719 --> 00:28:13,310 So getting in a group, getting around other healthy men changes lives. 403 00:28:13,349 --> 00:28:14,929 I've just seen it time and time again. 404 00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:17,000 Ed Watters: Yeah, yeah. 405 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,879 I think it's, it's one of the most important things. 406 00:28:21,879 --> 00:28:25,409 You need that context to be. 407 00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:32,919 And the only way you can get context of a man is to be around a true man and that, 408 00:28:32,929 --> 00:28:36,610 that sometimes is very difficult to find. 409 00:28:38,049 --> 00:28:45,330 Another big thing I remember is being able to reach out and ask. 410 00:28:45,715 --> 00:28:48,054 Hey, can you help me with this? 411 00:28:48,155 --> 00:28:49,564 Do you have any advice? 412 00:28:50,424 --> 00:28:53,955 It was one of the hardest things for me to do. 413 00:28:53,955 --> 00:28:56,854 Do you have any advice for young men? 414 00:28:57,134 --> 00:29:03,934 How do you reach out to a possible role model and ask for 415 00:29:03,934 --> 00:29:06,354 that help that you might need? 416 00:29:07,364 --> 00:29:10,850 Jason Lange: Yeah, that, um, I just want to really highlight what 417 00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:15,080 you said because this is sometimes the hardest thing for men to do. 418 00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:17,010 What I've seen in the work I do with men. 419 00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:20,730 I mean, I'll tell you, Ed, some, you know, I'm a coach as well so I work 420 00:29:20,730 --> 00:29:22,970 with guys one on one or in programs. 421 00:29:23,230 --> 00:29:27,149 And so sometimes I will have the, I've had the experience many times, 422 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:34,159 men are actually paying me for coaching, guidance, support, right? 423 00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:37,699 So they're paying me for it and like a week will go by 424 00:29:37,709 --> 00:29:38,919 and I won't hear from them. 425 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:41,679 And so I'll reach out and be like, Hey, what's going on? 426 00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:42,790 I'm just wondering how you're doing. 427 00:29:43,230 --> 00:29:46,260 And they'll eventually reveal to me, Oh my God, I had the 428 00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:48,240 worst couple of days in my life. 429 00:29:48,550 --> 00:29:50,950 It was so hard, I barely survived it. 430 00:29:51,270 --> 00:29:53,469 And I'm like, I'm literally here for you. 431 00:29:53,469 --> 00:29:57,140 You're, you're actually paying me to be here for you and you still, right, 432 00:29:57,150 --> 00:29:58,650 had this challenge to reach out. 433 00:29:58,679 --> 00:30:00,279 Cause they're like, Oh, I felt so much shame. 434 00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:01,780 I was embarrassed or whatever. 435 00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:05,680 And I'm like, No, that, like, what I tell my guys is the moment you 436 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,955 want to withdraw is often the most important moment to reach out to say, 437 00:30:10,955 --> 00:30:13,035 Hey, I'm really struggling today. 438 00:30:13,115 --> 00:30:14,065 I'm just, I'm in it. 439 00:30:14,245 --> 00:30:18,905 I, I, I'm stuck, I'm mad or I'm pissed, or I'm sad, or I feel totally trapped. 440 00:30:19,214 --> 00:30:24,265 And it's that reaching out and finding connection that often 441 00:30:24,524 --> 00:30:28,355 starts to release some of the energy to allow us to heal and move. 442 00:30:28,585 --> 00:30:34,920 Or frankly, might not change a single thing about the actual mechanics of 443 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,560 whatever challenge we're having in life. 444 00:30:37,090 --> 00:30:44,849 But connection often resources ourselves, resources us so we have the energy to 445 00:30:44,849 --> 00:30:47,440 keep, keep at that problem, so to speak. 446 00:30:47,649 --> 00:30:51,580 So it's not like talking to me necessarily fixes everything all the time, but it just 447 00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:53,930 makes a man feel like okay I'm not alone. 448 00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:57,360 I feel energized, I feel resourced so I can go back and, 449 00:30:57,570 --> 00:30:59,189 and get at this thing again. 450 00:30:59,819 --> 00:31:01,525 But it's a real challenge. 451 00:31:01,525 --> 00:31:05,445 So if you're, you know, thinking about it, it, whether it's, you know, 452 00:31:05,445 --> 00:31:09,245 someone on social media, or someone who wrote a book, or someone in your 453 00:31:09,245 --> 00:31:11,655 immediate community, reach out to them. 454 00:31:11,655 --> 00:31:14,194 Just say, Hey, you know, I'm looking for a little guidance. 455 00:31:14,195 --> 00:31:16,754 Would you have some time, some time to just sit down and chat? 456 00:31:17,155 --> 00:31:21,985 Um, they, you know, there is actually a fair amount of research that shows, in a 457 00:31:22,025 --> 00:31:29,255 pretty profound way, um, men, it's not, you know, the ideal obviously is you 458 00:31:29,255 --> 00:31:34,985 have like a very present, attuned, caring caregiver, father energy, who can come in 459 00:31:34,985 --> 00:31:36,985 and is regularly engaged with your life. 460 00:31:37,485 --> 00:31:39,575 Many of us don't have that for various reasons. 461 00:31:39,804 --> 00:31:47,225 But what they, what they've shown is even a single intervention by an older, caring, 462 00:31:47,225 --> 00:31:51,335 wise man, so this could be a sports coach, this could be an uncle, this could be 463 00:31:51,335 --> 00:31:56,105 someone in your community, a teacher, whatever, somebody who just drops in 464 00:31:56,105 --> 00:31:57,934 with you and says, Hey, you know what? 465 00:31:58,495 --> 00:31:59,425 I know you can do it. 466 00:31:59,485 --> 00:32:01,704 I believe in you, let's figure this out. 467 00:32:03,175 --> 00:32:09,825 One time even can completely alter the trajectory of a boy and man's life. 468 00:32:10,215 --> 00:32:14,715 So these don't have to even be like, you know, best friend relationships forever. 469 00:32:14,735 --> 00:32:18,245 But sometimes just getting a little mentorship from someone in your workplace, 470 00:32:18,254 --> 00:32:21,465 or someone in your church, or someone in your friends and family community, 471 00:32:21,465 --> 00:32:23,094 it's like, Hey, I'm struggling with this thing. 472 00:32:23,275 --> 00:32:24,365 Have you ever dealt with that? 473 00:32:24,465 --> 00:32:27,864 And you ask them, people are often, love to share about their 474 00:32:27,864 --> 00:32:29,984 wins, or advice, or self story. 475 00:32:30,154 --> 00:32:31,804 So you just, you got to reach out. 476 00:32:32,184 --> 00:32:36,310 And if it's a little too uncomfortable, you know, you can find a container, 477 00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:39,830 something like a men's group, or a retreat, or a program to come into 478 00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:41,660 where that's really woven in as well. 479 00:32:42,350 --> 00:32:43,630 Ed Watters: Yeah, that's good advice. 480 00:32:44,309 --> 00:32:47,100 You know, another thing is quality. 481 00:32:47,170 --> 00:32:53,240 I think the quality of your mentors matter, because we touched 482 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,630 on it earlier, what, what you are around is what you become. 483 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,710 And you really want to think about that when you are attaching yourself. 484 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:10,570 If, if the guy's out there partying and doing immature things, is that 485 00:33:10,659 --> 00:33:13,080 the right mentor that you want? 486 00:33:13,630 --> 00:33:18,935 You know, I remember it was fun, it was great, it was energetic, it was 487 00:33:18,995 --> 00:33:22,715 thrilling to be around that energy. 488 00:33:23,195 --> 00:33:30,045 But now that I'm older and I'm a little wiser, I look back on those connections 489 00:33:30,054 --> 00:33:36,354 that I chose when I was younger because I wanted that vibrant feeling in my life. 490 00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:42,525 This is not necessarily the right person to reach out to. 491 00:33:42,765 --> 00:33:51,420 And I really think that we need to work harder on being available to 492 00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:53,850 individuals when they reach out. 493 00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:58,490 And don't slough a young man off if they reach out to you 494 00:33:58,490 --> 00:34:00,750 because it's so important. 495 00:34:01,569 --> 00:34:05,350 They saw something there, answer that call. 496 00:34:06,915 --> 00:34:16,315 What type of person should we be going into a relationship like that? 497 00:34:16,325 --> 00:34:24,205 Because a lot of people they're withdrawn and they don't want to be bothered by it. 498 00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:31,680 But really, I, I feel that it's your duty if a young man reaches out to 499 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,370 you, you need to answer that call. 500 00:34:35,230 --> 00:34:35,510 Jason Lange: Yeah. 501 00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:40,929 One of my, you know, favorite inquiries for this is, uh, to slow down. 502 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,190 And even just inside yourself connect to, yeah, that inner 503 00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:47,550 teenager there, that inner young boy. 504 00:34:48,130 --> 00:34:51,040 And remember, where were you struggling? 505 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:52,380 Where were you in pain? 506 00:34:52,910 --> 00:34:56,985 What do you wish you could have asked an older, mature man? 507 00:34:57,205 --> 00:34:59,805 And what do you wish you could have gotten back from him? 508 00:35:00,625 --> 00:35:04,535 And you'll probably get a pretty clear read, right? 509 00:35:04,555 --> 00:35:07,255 Like, Oh man, I really needed somebody to X, Y, or Z. 510 00:35:07,934 --> 00:35:11,774 That can be one of your great gifts in life then is to go out and give that. 511 00:35:12,205 --> 00:35:16,674 To find other men who you can express that thing you needed at that age 512 00:35:16,675 --> 00:35:18,145 and say, Hey, here, here I am. 513 00:35:18,165 --> 00:35:19,635 I want to, I want to bring this. 514 00:35:20,145 --> 00:35:23,394 And just, you know, in general, I think one of the greatest things we can 515 00:35:23,394 --> 00:35:30,180 do as men is show up with curiosity, not shame people, just, right? 516 00:35:30,190 --> 00:35:33,939 It's not making them wrong for, you know, if a young boy who's stuck, we don't 517 00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:36,010 want to shame them, we just get curious. 518 00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:37,300 What's going on in your life? 519 00:35:37,699 --> 00:35:42,889 And, um, I kind of summarize, you know, in the work I do, Ed, I call 520 00:35:42,889 --> 00:35:44,930 it the father energy we all need. 521 00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:49,830 And I kind of mentioned it earlier, actually, that I, to me, the ultimate 522 00:35:49,830 --> 00:35:53,890 kind of fatherly masculine energy that anyone can give, doesn't just have to be 523 00:35:53,890 --> 00:36:00,740 a man, but it's this particular texture of, oh, let's figure it out together. 524 00:36:01,379 --> 00:36:05,679 Meaning if a challenge hits you and you feel like you failed, or don't 525 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,160 know how to do something, or are stuck, it's the loving presence of 526 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,950 someone else who acknowledges that. 527 00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:17,110 And then sits with you and says, Okay, well, what can we do different next time? 528 00:36:17,450 --> 00:36:20,070 What do you need to work on in yourself or in your career? 529 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,440 And that just stays with you in that and helps you run the experiments. 530 00:36:25,710 --> 00:36:28,865 Another way to put this is, helps you learn to fail better. 531 00:36:29,635 --> 00:36:32,845 So if something happens in life and it doesn't work out the way 532 00:36:32,845 --> 00:36:34,715 you want, you figure it out. 533 00:36:34,805 --> 00:36:37,275 And to me, that is real resilience. 534 00:36:37,305 --> 00:36:39,105 It's not that you always get what you want, 535 00:36:39,395 --> 00:36:42,715 it's that you're able to respond to the moment and try again. 536 00:36:43,355 --> 00:36:43,890 Ride through it. 537 00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:47,770 Men tend to love, you know, sports movies, stuff like Rocky. 538 00:36:48,010 --> 00:36:49,030 What makes Rocky great? 539 00:36:49,470 --> 00:36:51,130 It's not that he wins every time. 540 00:36:51,340 --> 00:36:53,980 It's no matter how hard he gets hit, he gets back up. 541 00:36:54,090 --> 00:36:54,860 He tries again. 542 00:36:55,370 --> 00:36:57,709 We find that very inspiring as men. 543 00:36:58,070 --> 00:37:01,780 And that's a really unique texture of love, men in 544 00:37:01,780 --> 00:37:03,730 particular, can offer to others. 545 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,610 Of, wow, yeah, you're really hurting with this. 546 00:37:05,610 --> 00:37:09,520 You feel really stuck with this, or wow, you, you face planted on that, right? 547 00:37:09,580 --> 00:37:10,620 Well, let's talk about it. 548 00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:11,370 Let's figure it out. 549 00:37:11,380 --> 00:37:12,400 What could we try different? 550 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:17,819 And having someone in your, in your corner, so to speak, like that as 551 00:37:17,820 --> 00:37:20,560 a man, wow, does it change things. 552 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,520 It, it creates a completely different type of resilience that allows 553 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:31,320 us to go out and be bold and run experiments and fail in a sense. 554 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,600 But we learn so much every time that if we just commit to that as a 555 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,839 lifestyle and we have someone guiding us from a place of depth, it is 556 00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:43,289 incredible how much we can transform. 557 00:37:43,619 --> 00:37:48,645 But so many of us guys just did not have that growing up. 558 00:37:49,165 --> 00:37:51,235 So for me, I didn't have that kind of presence. 559 00:37:51,475 --> 00:37:57,285 So I learned to just get really close to the chest, play it really 560 00:37:57,285 --> 00:38:01,905 safe because I was so afraid of fucking up my life, making a mistake. 561 00:38:02,355 --> 00:38:04,754 And I didn't feel like I had any net underneath me. 562 00:38:05,025 --> 00:38:07,415 So you know, I was just kind of locked in myself. 563 00:38:07,945 --> 00:38:10,255 As I've gotten into men's work and gotten supported, 564 00:38:10,595 --> 00:38:13,785 I'm able to take much bigger risks in my life. 565 00:38:13,995 --> 00:38:18,535 Which sometimes work, sometimes don't, but I'm always glad I took the chance. 566 00:38:18,815 --> 00:38:22,365 And that's a real place of liberation for so many of us guys. 567 00:38:22,605 --> 00:38:26,255 So if you want to mentor a man, you know, it's really, really shore him up. 568 00:38:26,275 --> 00:38:26,915 Get curious. 569 00:38:26,915 --> 00:38:27,525 What do they want? 570 00:38:27,795 --> 00:38:28,644 What's in the way? 571 00:38:28,995 --> 00:38:32,104 And then you just hash it out with him and you stay connected and present. 572 00:38:32,595 --> 00:38:35,385 And you can completely change somebody's life. 573 00:38:37,665 --> 00:38:41,455 Ed Watters: And that's what we need to do most is change 574 00:38:42,005 --> 00:38:43,985 the status quo in our world. 575 00:38:44,505 --> 00:38:47,245 Too much hate, we need to turn it to love. 576 00:38:47,255 --> 00:38:51,895 And it's okay to love as a man, you know, not just a woman, but 577 00:38:52,034 --> 00:38:54,734 your community, your fellow man. 578 00:38:54,735 --> 00:38:55,615 It's big. 579 00:38:55,925 --> 00:39:01,984 And I, I really think we as people out here working towards 580 00:39:01,995 --> 00:39:04,880 that, that's much needed. 581 00:39:04,890 --> 00:39:10,220 That, that is mentoring men to come aboard and do this. 582 00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:13,300 We, we have to do this together, it's big. 583 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:20,440 Do you have anything that you want to add to our conversation today that 584 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,199 you feel that's vital that men hear? 585 00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:29,570 Jason Lange: You know, I'll just add, I really love what you just shared there. 586 00:39:29,580 --> 00:39:34,555 And I think there's a unique, you know, like I said, kind of texture and quality 587 00:39:34,985 --> 00:39:37,775 to love through the masculine in a sense. 588 00:39:38,355 --> 00:39:42,305 And it's one I think a lot of us men and boys are craving. 589 00:39:42,315 --> 00:39:46,865 And what it is, is someone who looks at us and says, I see the best in you. 590 00:39:48,385 --> 00:39:49,475 That's what I want from you. 591 00:39:49,574 --> 00:39:52,665 I see the best in you so I expect the best from you. 592 00:39:52,665 --> 00:39:57,445 And I'm going to be an advocate and be on your team and fight for the best from you. 593 00:39:57,795 --> 00:40:01,235 So if I fuck up in my life, or I treat someone badly, or I cheat in a 594 00:40:01,235 --> 00:40:05,520 relationship, or I do something bad, we actually often are longing for other 595 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,450 men to stop us, look us in the eye and say, Hey man, that, that's not cool. 596 00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:10,800 That doesn't fly. 597 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:17,189 I know, I know, I know who you are and I know there's more in you than that. 598 00:40:17,540 --> 00:40:20,010 So let's clean this up or let's do better. 599 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:26,160 And that texture of love of, I'm not going to take anything but the best from you. 600 00:40:26,780 --> 00:40:27,770 Because I see it in you. 601 00:40:27,790 --> 00:40:32,410 I'm holding that vision for you, is so affirming for us guys. 602 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,600 And we'll, we'll, we'll move mountains when someone believes in us in that sense. 603 00:40:36,860 --> 00:40:40,820 And doesn't just let us get away, so to speak, with bad behavior. 604 00:40:41,189 --> 00:40:44,635 And I think that's something the world is desperately missing right 605 00:40:44,645 --> 00:40:49,775 now is, you know, it's not calling out so much, but it's calling forward 606 00:40:49,785 --> 00:40:51,995 the best in another person, right? 607 00:40:51,995 --> 00:40:53,234 The best in another man. 608 00:40:53,245 --> 00:40:56,525 And that is something I do not think enough men are doing. 609 00:40:56,875 --> 00:41:00,954 Where I think it's our responsibility as men to call forward the other 610 00:41:00,954 --> 00:41:04,765 men in the world we don't see showing up in the most healthy ways. 611 00:41:05,105 --> 00:41:08,075 And again, it's not about tearing them down or shaming them, 612 00:41:08,325 --> 00:41:12,075 but it's about pulling out the best of them saying, Hey man, 613 00:41:12,695 --> 00:41:13,815 I know you got more in there. 614 00:41:13,865 --> 00:41:15,705 Let's figure this out, how could we do this different? 615 00:41:15,705 --> 00:41:17,115 How can we clean up this mess? 616 00:41:17,535 --> 00:41:20,725 And, you know, it can be a little controversial to say these days, 617 00:41:20,725 --> 00:41:24,265 Ed, but I'm definitely of the camp that what the world needs right now 618 00:41:24,325 --> 00:41:27,135 is not less men in the masculine. 619 00:41:27,464 --> 00:41:29,404 It's actually, we need way more. 620 00:41:29,935 --> 00:41:34,175 Healthy men holding the masculine, showing up in the world. 621 00:41:34,605 --> 00:41:37,015 Women in the feminine, they can't do it all on their own, they're 622 00:41:37,105 --> 00:41:38,954 fucking trying, but they can't. 623 00:41:39,175 --> 00:41:42,025 We need to step up as men and take responsibility for 624 00:41:42,025 --> 00:41:43,974 ourselves and for each other. 625 00:41:44,304 --> 00:41:49,005 And that is, you know, one of my teachers, uh, last thing I'll share here, pointed 626 00:41:49,005 --> 00:41:52,435 out, it is one of the most challenging things about stepping into what I kind of 627 00:41:52,465 --> 00:41:58,705 call men's work and this path of growth, which is about taking full responsibility 628 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,610 for who we are in our lives. 629 00:42:00,940 --> 00:42:04,300 So this is very different from traditional kind of victim energy 630 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:08,080 of, Oh, my parents duh, duh, duh, I'm stuck, I'm a victim, it's not my fault. 631 00:42:08,370 --> 00:42:09,630 It's more, wow. 632 00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:12,999 What happened had an impact on me, right? 633 00:42:13,009 --> 00:42:18,549 How I was raised, my socioeconomic status, so many different things, right? 634 00:42:18,659 --> 00:42:20,749 This stuff happened to me and it had an impact. 635 00:42:21,699 --> 00:42:27,440 The thing is the moment we become aware of what happened, we become 636 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,990 responsible for shifting it. 637 00:42:29,470 --> 00:42:35,600 And that is a painful thing not a lot of men want to do and it even extends beyond. 638 00:42:36,610 --> 00:42:40,339 We don't even, it's not even about just taking responsibility for 639 00:42:40,340 --> 00:42:45,410 ourselves, but for the whole mess all men up until this point have created. 640 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,754 You say, Hey, I didn't create this mess. 641 00:42:47,965 --> 00:42:51,055 But I'm gonna take responsibility for cleaning it up in myself, 642 00:42:51,085 --> 00:42:54,385 in my relationships, in my lineage, in my community, and 643 00:42:54,385 --> 00:42:55,795 as much as I can in the world. 644 00:42:56,115 --> 00:42:57,645 And not all men are up for that. 645 00:42:57,645 --> 00:43:00,825 It is, you know, it is something to bite off and chew, but 646 00:43:00,825 --> 00:43:02,805 it is incredibly empowering. 647 00:43:03,215 --> 00:43:04,655 Empowering and liberating. 648 00:43:04,715 --> 00:43:06,666 I have seen for, so many guys to say, You know what? 649 00:43:07,945 --> 00:43:11,305 All this stuff that happened to me, you know, we could see this stuff often 650 00:43:11,305 --> 00:43:15,145 in the lineage, my dad was raised a certain way, his dad was raised a certain 651 00:43:15,145 --> 00:43:16,905 way, his dad was raised a certain way. 652 00:43:17,185 --> 00:43:19,264 And when we're willing to step in and say, You know what? 653 00:43:19,355 --> 00:43:20,315 The buck stops here. 654 00:43:20,705 --> 00:43:23,555 I'm not willing to pass that on, whether I have kids or not. 655 00:43:23,785 --> 00:43:27,565 I'm going to change this karma in my generation and say, You know what? 656 00:43:27,785 --> 00:43:31,985 I am allowed to feel, I am allowed to love, I don't have to do it all alone. 657 00:43:32,705 --> 00:43:37,275 Power and sensitivity can go hand in hand, it's not either or like 658 00:43:37,275 --> 00:43:38,525 so many of us men are taught. 659 00:43:38,945 --> 00:43:41,745 And the world needs so much more of that. 660 00:43:45,075 --> 00:43:46,405 Ed Watters: I can't agree more. 661 00:43:46,764 --> 00:43:48,404 You know, we're hurt. 662 00:43:48,895 --> 00:43:54,045 And we need love and maturity and understanding to bring it back together. 663 00:43:54,475 --> 00:44:01,695 Acceptance is the first step of admitting that we have a problem. 664 00:44:02,424 --> 00:44:05,435 Houston, we have a problem and it's huge. 665 00:44:05,655 --> 00:44:12,785 And I think that the glue to fix this broken, whatever it 666 00:44:12,785 --> 00:44:16,045 is, is us being here today. 667 00:44:16,104 --> 00:44:21,140 And I think it's very important that people can reach out and 668 00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:23,090 find people like you, Jason. 669 00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:25,540 How can people find you? 670 00:44:26,770 --> 00:44:28,340 Jason Lange: Absolutely, thanks for asking. 671 00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:33,250 You can keep up with me and all of my work at evolutionary.men. 672 00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:35,439 So it's not dot com, it's dot men. 673 00:44:35,709 --> 00:44:39,510 And on there I've got a podcast of my own, I've got some blogs, I've got 674 00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:42,550 retreats, programs, and a contact form. 675 00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:44,690 So even if you just have a question as a guy and you're like, Hey, 676 00:44:44,690 --> 00:44:45,610 I don't know where to start. 677 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:46,560 Just reach out. 678 00:44:46,590 --> 00:44:48,190 You know, you don't even have to work with me. 679 00:44:48,190 --> 00:44:52,640 I can point you to all kinds of resources because I'm so fervent. 680 00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:55,769 Like, you know, part of my mission is, I do believe, every 681 00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:56,960 man should be in a men's group. 682 00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:01,490 And I thought, I think if we get there as a society and as a culture, 683 00:45:01,570 --> 00:45:05,310 things will get so much better, that we don't have to do it alone as men. 684 00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:09,080 And it doesn't mean you have to have forty best friends. 685 00:45:09,130 --> 00:45:11,780 And when I say men's group, I'm just talking a couple of guys in your 686 00:45:11,780 --> 00:45:14,190 life that you go deep and get real. 687 00:45:14,645 --> 00:45:18,445 Get real with about what's going on and where you want to go. 688 00:45:18,705 --> 00:45:22,055 So you can find, uh, reach out to me, you can find about all 689 00:45:22,055 --> 00:45:24,305 my stuff at evolutionary.men. 690 00:45:24,965 --> 00:45:26,705 Ed Watters: Very powerful, Jason. 691 00:45:26,955 --> 00:45:31,435 What you're doing is worth much respect and I want to 692 00:45:31,435 --> 00:45:33,085 say thank you for doing that. 693 00:45:33,554 --> 00:45:37,585 And thank you for sharing it here with us today on the Dead America Podcast. 694 00:45:38,515 --> 00:45:38,815 Jason Lange: Yeah. 695 00:45:38,825 --> 00:45:41,165 Thanks so much for having me, Ed, and creating a space like 696 00:45:41,165 --> 00:45:42,535 this to get the word out. 697 00:45:42,555 --> 00:45:44,055 And it's really transformational. 698 00:45:44,055 --> 00:45:45,065 So, appreciating you. 699 00:45:48,315 --> 00:45:50,044 Ed Watters: Thank you for joining us today. 700 00:45:50,625 --> 00:45:56,885 If you found this podcast enlightening, entertaining, educational in any way, 701 00:45:57,665 --> 00:46:04,025 please share, like, subscribe, and join us right back here next week for another 702 00:46:04,055 --> 00:46:06,985 great episode of the Dead America Podcast. 703 00:46:07,745 --> 00:46:12,268 I'm Ed Watters, your host, enjoy your afternoon wherever you are.